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Bus really stops at the stop with this!

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Bus

Really interesting technology to get the bus stop at a stop..

Invisible bus bays (IBB) are your answer to rid commuter woes of erratic parking by BMTC buses at bus stops, according to City-based firm — Neosphere. 

The IBB system comes with two main components: digital signal poll (DSP) installed at bus stops and on board control unit (OBCU) in buses that ply along the route. As soon as a bus approaches the stop, the DSP catches the bus number through OBCU installed in the vehicle and related information displayed on the signage.

rest of article here

The company website is http://www.invisiblebusbay.com/

This will be such a boon if it works well!

Comments

psaram42's picture

Neosphere Ambiance

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This looks to be an excellent professional application of real value. Neosphere Ambiance Pvt. Ltd. (NAPL) is a Delhi based company providing Consultancy in areas like

  1. Environment Engineering
  2. Educational
  3. Occupational
  4. Health
  5. Safety
  6. satellite image processing
  7. mapping services
  8. waste management
  9. risk management
  10. Green Building
  11. Carbon Trading (CDM)

Address:-

#1742, 2nd Floor, Sher Singh Bazar,
Kotla Mubarakpur, South Ext. I,
New Delhi - 110003

Ph: LL - (011) 6545 2965  Mob - (+91) 85880 02377 [Sourav Kumar Das]

Email:

  1. info@neosphere-ambiance.com
  2. neosphere-ambiance@gmail.com

Item no 8 above "Waste management" attracted my attention. Waste management is the current burning issue in Bangalore next only to the Transport issue. 

do-it-yourself's picture

comment by psaram42

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The Neosphere mentioned in psaram42's comment has nothing to do with Neosphere of Invisible Bus Bay.

Its mention here is inappropriate, inconsiderate, misleading, mischievous and reeks of ambush marketing.

do-it-yourself's picture

Invisible Bus Bay - Clarification

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IBB is not a monitoring device. The Deccan Herald news report may have inadvertently conveyed the impression that IBB was to track buses not stopping at stops and penalising them.

IBB is essentially a hands-off enforcement tool and infallible. It was designed to overcome several disruptive practices plaguing the public transport system. The most visible of these being

1. The practice of buses not stopping at bus stops (fact: there are no dependable, designated stops) and

2. Parking away from the foot path, in the middle of the road and making the very simple and essential act of ingress and egress confusing, impossible and perilous.

IBB will also designate exact bus stops and the bus numbers stopping at that stop and reduce the confusion that prevails now. It will also enforce 'Q' system for buses at stops so that the bus comes to where the passengers are waiting instead of the passengers running to 'Catch' a bus.

We have conducted exhaustive field tests and are confident of its performance. This has been voiced by most of the agencies involved.

But its success relies less on our proven technology and more on questionable administrative and implementation capabilities of some of the stake holders.

psaram42's picture

Thank you do-it-yourself

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Thank you, “do-it-yourself”, for pointing out the slip. I got the reference by Google search “Neospear”.  The Bangalore based one did not appear in the search. However it appears by clicking here. [1]

Please do take up the matter with Deccan herald. It would be more appropriate. 

do-it-yourself's picture

Thanks psaram42

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Thanks for the clarification. Also will follow up with DH.

murali772's picture

can't do yourself

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But its success relies less on our proven technology and more on questionable administrative and implementation capabilities of some of the stake holders.

Exactly. Here is my experience with "Yelli Iddira?" as far back as in 2007. Technology can take things far, making for a more liveable world. But, that cannot happen as long as you have government monopolies (like BMTC), nurturing various vested interests, coming in the way.

The answer perhaps lies here, which you can't do yourself; you'll need to mobilise public opinion.

Muralidhar Rao
rs's picture

There is another thing that

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There is another thing that will help the bus service. This is by putting cameras ans recording the entrance and exits of people. The reason is that it is often the case that the drivers/conductors are in a terrific hurry at the bus stops and dont wait for people to get on. Often their deciding to leave causes people to fall off and sometimes injure themselves or get crushed by the bus. Recording all this will prevent that.

The other thing that is really annoying is that busses stop at random places to pick up and drop people off. While this is perhaps acceptable late in the night during the day it can be extremely dangerous and annoying to other drivers - especially cyclists. Often the bus decides to stop immediately after a signal and end up blocking the road and getting other drivers quite annoyed.

I dont know how this IBB plans to tackle the annoyance of vehicles parked in the bus bays but it would be amazing if it all works out. A large number  of the jams are caused by this haphazard stopping of buses and illegal parking of vehicles.

 

Ramesh

 

do-it-yourself's picture

BMTC random parking dangerous to all

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"The other thing that is really annoying is that busses stop at random places to pick up and drop people off. While this is perhaps acceptable late in the night during the day it can be extremely dangerous and annoying to other drivers - especially cyclists. Often the bus decides to stop immediately after a signal and end up blocking the road and getting other drivers quite annoyed." - rs

Random parking is never acceptable, especially if you are a commuter. And IBB will prevent any and every such wilful acts by bus drivers.

"I dont know how this IBB plans to tackle the annoyance of vehicles parked in the bus bays but it would be amazing if it all works out. A large number  of the jams are caused by this haphazard stopping of buses and illegal parking of vehicles." -rs

Our interactions with the majority of the commuters at the stops, during development, was an eyeopener. Their logic was that as long as the system is flexible, all people abuse it, other vehicles park at bus stops cos they know the drivers can park else where.

But If, because of IBB, the bus driver has to park exactly at the stop or passengers are going to be denied the service by an errant auto parked in the designated stop, then the commuters take charge and shoo them away. Evey one we spoke to was confident that over a period of time people learn to keep away from designated IBB areas.

dvsquare's picture

No hope unless BMTC mgmt changes their attitude

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I may seem pessimistic here even with the best of the technological use in public tranport betterment, but on the ground reality is that it can only work when the agencies like BMTC want to make themselves attractive.

I rememeber many times giving feedback to BMTC about errant driving of their drivers, they haven't done anything to them.

Also, traffic police catches a lot of traffic violations agains bus-drivers, manually as well as through automated cameras, but what happens? Nothing. They must be in the pending-list of BTP's files, that this much of the fine has to be collected from BMTC. Nothing more.

Complaints filed by these devices also will not be heard by BMTC bosses and management, because they are not at all bothered for the commuters's betterment. Had they been, they must be running buses where commuter wants to go, not to the places where they want to run buses, at the time, when people really need PT and not at the times when they want.

Deepak

do-it-yourself's picture

IBB is not for monitoring

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"Complaints filed by these devices also will not be heard by BMTC bosses and management" - dvsquare

Deepak, IBB is not a monitoring tool. Its purpose is not to check where and which drivers skip stops and penalize them. This would be utterly useless.

IBB is an infallible enforcement tool. It prevents drivers from parking haphazardly at bus stops - period.

I understand your pessimism as it is well founded. But ignoring the fact that BMTC may or may not opt for IBB, your views based on my clarification would be welcome.

dvsquare's picture

"It prevents drivers from

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"It prevents drivers from parking haphazardly at bus stops - period."

How?

From the DH link I could read was -

"The bus driver has to park the vehicle in the signal range created by DSP failing which a complaint message is sent to the control room."

Above is the statement because of which I wrote my past comment.

Secondly, our commuters as well as our BMTC drivers and also the other autos-taxis and private cars, since when they become so educated, civic-sensible, and well-behaved on the roads, that they will follow this invisible bus-bay and bus-stop system???

When in today's scenario, they are not able to respect the proper visible bus-bays and sheltered bus-stops, how will they be able to respect invisible bays? Even the Traffic police has marked more than a lane space for their parking on bus-stops today, still they park before bus-stop or in middle of the road, how is this invisible stuff going to motivate them or enforce them to stop at the designated bus-stop and bus-bays?

I am asking a lot of questions around the same issue, but that's where I spent a lot of time, taking pictures on the road, complaining and suggesting to both Traffic Police and BMTC's management, but it all fell on deaf ears, and hence my pessimism.

But I need to understand how exactly this mechanism is going to help commuters from the BMTC bus driver's atrocities, considering the practical problems present in current bangalore roads.

Deepak

do-it-yourself's picture

IBB cannot be subverted

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Deepak, I cannot answer the question 'How?' for obvious reasons. But suffice it to say that IBB does away with the drivers 'Adjust Maadi' attitude when it comes to parking at stops.

All your points are valid. And all attempts to train BMTC drivers or educate other road users about the need for the bus to park at the designated stops and near the kerb, or complain to BTP or BMTC failed. Since soft solutions won't work, we developed IBB.

In a scenario where the BMTC driver is helpless and is forced to park the bus exactly at the stop and near the kerb, all the other road users realise this and are forced to abstain from parking at such areas.

The major beneficiaries are the commuters who know the bus is going to come to where they are and they don't have to risk their lives trying to catch an errant bus.

srinidhi's picture

routing is critical..

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Deepak..yes it would be ideal that everyone drives responsible and follow all rules..but as I see the problem is in numbers..we have way too many busses all concentrating into the city centre using the traditional hub and spoke model..where all busses either get to Majestic or KR market and some to Shivajinagar..

So with this there are sometimes around 8-10 busses arriving at a bus stop around city corporation and I am not sure how IBB would work in that case..they say there are 'waivers' in such situation but need to see how it works on ground..

But more focus on direction based routing (BIG10) should idelly rationalize the number of busses arriving at a stop at a time..this will also improve speeds  of busses in turn!

About IBB, heard yesterday at a DULT meeting that IBB would be running a demo soon on some of BMTC busses as a demonstration..lets see how it all works together!

idontspam's picture

Heard at DULT yesterday how

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Heard at DULT yesterday how the tech works, hope the pilot is sucessful! Hope "waivers" dont get abused in non emergency situation. Best wishes.

do-it-yourself's picture

IBB pilot thru DULT

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idontspam, Thanks.

Lot of hurdles yet, but we will try our best to overcome it all.

do-it-yourself's picture

Direction based routing and IBB

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Srinidhi, we all agree that there are a lot of issues that need change. As a concerned citizen, I too would like to see a near utpoian situation.

But where I see IBB in the larger picture is not as a magic wand solution but as a resolute focal point around which several other issues can be aligned. That is where our knowlwdge bank will run dry and we really hope all the info and ideas at Praja will come into play.

It is not news that problem solving in India is difficult due to the very fact that they are all somehow interconnected and interdependent. And thus begins the 'tu tu, mai mai', 'who will bell the cat' game. Eventually nothing gets done satisfactorily.

For example, when ever there is a well intentioned discussion on Bus shelters (design, location, amenities etc) or kerb height or auto stand location or routing or erection of transformers and many such issues, the fluidity of the options is confusing and everybody ends up doing what they want.

Imagine a situation where a major player like BMTC says (considering all relevent issues) "THIS IS WHERE MY BUS STOPS". Now the rest of you start planning and building your amenities around this.

As for routing, may be your point that there are too many buses on a route converging at a stop at the same time is now ignored since it is not visible enough. If thru IBB, excessive buses at a stop cause obstruction, then maybe it will be evident and addressed.

Yes, there will be challenges, but should be a good starting point.

All your views on the bigger picture and the small role IBB may play to jumpstart it would be really beneficial.

do-it-yourself's picture

8-10 buses at Corporation stop

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Srinidhi, this very situation, thankfully, shows there is something very wrong and needs to be addressed with proper planning.

Our primary concern was the commuter, their safety and convenience during ingress and egress. IBB will achieve this.

In this context, a bus stop(s) should be planned considering only the length of the road and never the width and this is true with or without IBB.

If, like at Corporation stop, there are 10 buses converging at the same time and the length of the road cannot accomodate these number of buses, sensible  and practicle solutions like route rationalisation, timing the arrival (using ITS / 2 way communication) etc should be planned. Parallel parking is not the solution.

An 'I-dont-care' attitude by the authorities has led to this situation and the blame is taken by the hapless (only in this situation) driver. In most other places (Kalinga Rao road bus bay) the drivers just don't care.

The scariest part is the proposed influx of more buses which will only aggravate the situation.

psaram42's picture

The Mumbai example of Travelling including city Bus commuting

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Travelling includes city travel and more. [1]

When the corporation took over the Company in 1947, there were 242 buses in operation on 23 routes and these buses carried 238,000 passengers per day. At present, there are 4,680 buses[2] carrying 480,000 passengers[3] daily on 400+ routes. With the change in the name of the city from Bombay to Mumbai, the organization is now known as The Brihanmumbai Electric Supply & Transport Undertaking [BEST] [2]

The conductor decides the stopping and starting of busses, not the driver. The driver is trained to stop at the scheduled bus stop. Here the device discussed will be handy. However in emergency the conductor has the authority to stop and or start the bus by ringing the bell. 

Also the bus stops have to be planned deligently, avoiding crowding, to best of my knowledge. 

srinidhi's picture

Mumbai - funny numbers!

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Again I see some serious planning issues in the numbers PSRam Sir presents above..in 1947 , 242 busses carried ~2.5L passengers and now less than double the passengers 4.8L and they have 20 times more busses(4680)!!

BEST may really not be the best anyways!

xs400's picture

Good luck! Really.

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OK. I wondered how BMTC agreed to do this. May be there was a minister connected middle man who wanted to route money from bmtc via the contractor route.

I looked up Mr. do-it-yourself.  Seems my kinda guy. Great innovation!

I really hope this works (I mean the whole (corrupt) system not the device).

Look out for BMTC, they dont intend to provide good service. I expect them to quietly shelve this. Except for the few helping to make this device to work with the system, others have already hatched a plan to neutralize any benefits. One benefit already, theyve managed to spend money on a problem they created in the first place and not improve the system by moving money away from where it is actually required.

do-it-yourself will get funding that he deserves but will put it to use in building may be a desi drone to spy on praja.in members when he is told that the IBB system "just does not work" because of the "system"

Maybe it will survive as a device to make passenger vehicles report to police every kilometer to pay a toll.

BMTC will work great eventually. By then we will have teleportation. Karnataka government will show off BMTC as a tourist attraction.

 

 

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