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Metro PH 2 routes optimal?

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From DH today:

The State Cabinet is likely is give its nod for taking up Phase-2 of Namma Metro at its meeting on Tuesday.

Covering a span of 72 km, Phase-2 of Bangalore Metro is expected to cost around Rs 25,000 crore. Phase-2 will be an extension of all the four present reaches of Phase-1. In addition, it will have two new lines –– one from Jayanagar to Electronics City via Jayadeva Hospital, BTM Layout and Silk Board and the second from Nagavara to Gottigere via Indian Institute of Management, Bangalore.

In the east-west corridor, the Delhi Metro Rail Corporation Limited, which has prepared the Detailed Project Report, recommends that the Phase-1 network be extended up to Whitefield from the existing terminating point at Baiyappanahalli in the east (15.5 km) and up to Kengeri from the terminating point near Nayandahalli on Mysore Road in the west (6.5 km).

Similarly on the north-south corridor, it suggests that the network be extended up to Bangalore International Exhibition Centre from Hessarghatta Cross (3.8 km) in the north and up to Anjanapura township from Puttenahalli Cross in the south (6.3 km).

The new line between Nagavara to Gottigere will run for 21.1 km and will have 20 stations. The new line between R V Road – Bommasandra will run for 18.8 km and will have 15 stations.

What is the traffic study supporting these new routes and extensions? how is it integrating with other modes of transport? 

There is lot of secrecy in the way the DPR is being handled..one reason cited is this information would give rise to land grabbing etc along the proposed metro routes..but this is anyway gonna happen..

What about public involvement in the DPR process?

DMRCL is no way a competent authority to write DPR's as they are the least c onnected to the round realities and do not understand patterns in commuter movement..why not thrash out the routes in public..have a meaningful discussion and then go for implementation..

ITPL integration came as an after thouht while implementing phase I, whereas it was the obvious choice of commuters even before phase I started..wouldnt it have been better to have the termination of the line at white field with the shed and other facilities on the out skirts of the city?

This way the land at BYP/NGEF could have been better used considering its proximity to city cbd!

Coming to the new line too..though I am from Blr south, I do not see any sense in the Jayanagar to Electronics City via Jayadeva Hospital, BTM Layout and Silk Board route..instead the IIM-Nagavara line could have turned into BTM atJayadeva and turn into Madivala at SIlkBoard..this way it would have catered to HSR layout and other catchment areas...

From SIlkBoard..a BRTS is the best option now to head to EC..if the elevated road was not constructed..a metro line all the way would have made sense..but with the BETL in place..its best optimally used instead of building a  metro all the way!

There are way too many questions to be answered with the new routes..hope some one in the govt has the sense and patience to question BMRCL!

 

Comments

Naveen's picture

Metro DPRs

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Sri - sure looks like you have serious doubts about the establishments !  I have been following this & will give you my opinions, as I see them ...

What is the traffic study supporting these new routes and extensions? how is it integrating with other modes of transport ?

Coming off from a 1994 study for ELRTS, a 2003 study was made by DMRC & this was followed up with CTTP-2007 by RITES - see this thread for full details of all studies. Routes had been recommended from Electronic city to Yelahanka (via Nagwara) & also from Bannerghatta National park.

There is lot of secrecy in the way the DPR is being handled

Study reports were available on public domain - I had copies of all of them (still have some).

What about public involvement in the DPR process?

I think DPRs are based on heavy civil & construction engineering that cannot easily be understood - I had earlier had a peek at the ph-1 DPR consisting of some 3-4 volumes of books.

DMRCL is no way a competent authority to write DPR's as they are the least connected to the round realities and do not understand patterns in commuter movement..why not thrash out the routes in public..have a meaningful discussion and then go for implementation..

I think an experienced agency that is capable of evaluating traffic study report/s would qualify to prepare detailed DPRs. Route recommendations were probably refined by BMRC based on CTTP & other studies & DMRC probably prepared DPRs since they have experience in making recommendations for the various challenges that would normally be encountered with heavy viaduct & tunnelling construction.

ITPL integration came as an after thouht while implementing phase I, whereas it was the obvious choice of commuters even before phase I started..wouldnt it have been better to have the termination of the line at white field with the shed and other facilities on the out skirts of the city?

ITPL is not the only place that needs to be connected & it might seem like an obvious choice for a Metro route to tech workers working there. However, the city has several such activity centers where there is similar, if not more demand (Mysore rd, Peenya, EC /Bommasandra, ORR-south east, newly emerging Sarjapur rd, etc, not to mention Majestic, Cantt, etc) -- & priorities might keep shifting as & when new developments take place.

I was equally surprised & had figured that the NS line could have run on Hosur rd rather than Kanakapura rd, & the EW line could have commenced at Whitefield.

To secure loans & approvals, it takes a lot of time to first prepare traffic studies, then get govt approvals & then approach financial agencies to secure loans on the basis of these studies endorsing financial viability. Meanwhile, demographics within the city might have changed & I think this was probably why ITPL was not included - Bangalore is a case in point where priorities have kept shifting each few years.

Several more depots might come up - Byp was probably convenient since govt land was available & it is also within easy commute distance for workers.

I do not see any sense in the Jayanagar to Electronics City via Jayadeva Hospital, BTM Layout and Silk Board route..instead the IIM-Nagavara line could have turned into BTM atJayadeva and turn into Madivala at SIlkBoard..this way it would have catered to HSR layout and other catchment areas...

Well, traffic studies also indicate that Bannerghatta rd needs mass transit.

From SIlkBoard..a BRTS is the best option now to head to EC

Again, traffic studies indicate that BETL alone would not suffice & a Metro route was warranted, as per CTTP-2007 report.

srinidhi's picture

glaring gaps..

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@Naveen - CTTP looks fine because it has been prepared in extensive detail..but as you know..the metro route is not exactly matching the proposals..

As I see, you have used words like probably for DMRCL's job, which is exactly what it is. We do not know what they have considered and how! Public debate is completely missing..

Coming to EC connectivity, as you know BETL is going under loss even today because of low patronage..they will take a long time to get the adequate number of users on to the road..so putting  a metro will totally kill it!

Most important thing is integration with other modes to transport...this is totally missing now with the current implementation..!!

As a side thought..if they can plan a depot in whitefield or Kengeri(cheaper there)..they can as well move all the infra at BYP to that place and use the real estate at BYP to build something useful as its closer to CBD!

Naveen's picture

@sri

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the metro route is not exactly matching the proposals....We do not know what they have considered and how!

I assume monorail /light rail is not being considered since there will be serious issues with profit-sharing & common ticketing since ticket prices for monorail will be much higher than Metro - this also implies that commuting will be more expensive if one has to change from metro to mono & vice-versa, as it is everywhere else. Besides, the state will have to shell out heavily to private operators on a monthly basis irrespective of ridership levels throughout the concession period/s. It might thus be better to go for metro, & this will also provide for higher capacities to meet future demands. Hence, it is my belief that metro is being pursued in preference to monorail & the CTTP plans are being modified to take this to account.

BETL is going under loss even today...putting  a metro will totally kill it!

I think both will become necessary since they address different segments, also these developments are not just for today or the short-term -- they are being considered as solutions for the long-term. As regards BETL, do you have any source that proves that they are making heavy losses ?

Most important thing is integration with other modes to transport...this is totally missing now with the current implementation..!!

I think commuter rail to serve urban needs is also out since the routing of tracks is not really suitable though many may arguie about it's cost efficiencies, etc etc, but the fact is they will not attract the bulk of the commuters. Commuter rail can be used for suburban services.

In the absense of monorail & commuter rail, integration will be necessary only with buses & this is easy to work out as & when necessary. BMTC is going on building TTMCs on it's properties & this is questionable, but I don't think BMRC is responsible for this.

they can plan a depot in whitefield or Kengeri (cheaper there)..they can as  well move all the infra at BYP to that place and use the real estate at BYP to build something useful as its closer to CBD!

This argument can be extended to several installations in the city, more appropriately to defense & research establishments such as DRDO, ADA & ISRO since common civilians have little to do with any of them. Parade grounds are centrally located real estate too. However, all of these still remain or will shift out if & when needed.

I am just curious to know if you have any ideas as to what is better there in place of the depot, other than malls & residential /commercial developments that will choke up the space ? I can only think of green spaces !

doc.aneesh's picture

DMRC competence

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I'd like to point out that DMRC is the right authority to conduct these studies.

They have ample experience in designing, building and running the Delhi Metro.

Their estimate of the daily ridership of Reach 1 of NM should be sufficient proof of their competence.

 

If you compare their estimate (25,000/day) to the actual weekday ridership (~23,000/day) it shows the accuracy.

As for the new EC line starting at Jayanagar, probably the reason is (I'm entirely speculating here) is to provide 2 new interchange stations, namely RV Rd and Jayadeva. If the IIMB-Nagawara line were extended alone then you'd have to get down at the nearest station, catch an auto and go to a station on reach 4. But with interchanges, the whole network is covered better.

 

I'm in no way qualified to argue with you though. These are just my opinions.

 

 

Naveen's picture

State clears Metro Ph-2

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to provide 2 new interchange stations 

Exactly - see the map below. If there are direct radial lines converging at city centre, commuters will need to pass thro' city centre even if their destinations are on the same side of town. Arranging interchange nodes in CBD corners does away with this & one would only have to reach the nearest node to change over.

The govt has cleared phase 2, but completion is a long way off ! Related news reports :

Cabinet approves two new lines for Phase 2

Majestic Metro long way off, Ph-1 completion 2015

Cabinet clears Ph-2

srinidhi's picture

questionable..

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@Aneesh

I am a regular traveller on the metro..and I still find more than half of the croud still taking pictures..so the actual ridership numbers should come up in 2-3 months only..but its an easy guess that if the metro had reached domulur/hal apt rd instead of BYP..the ridership would be steady due to the concentration of establishments and residences/appartments there!

DMRCL itself didnt get the routing right in delhi and even today more than 60% of their ridership comes from two lines connecting noida and gurgaon (both outside city/state)..

Its not about argument..but more about clarity that every one from Anna to the street vendor is asking about..

For example the gotigere-nagavara line could have turned right at jayadeva onto btm layout and turned left onto madivala at SB..thus connecting HSR/Koramangala..there are way too many propositions which can be discussed!

Ravi_D's picture

Hope for better planning and execution

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Apart from the important routing and DPR discussions, we need to look at implementation schedule. We have seen quite a few problems with Ph1 implementation. Hope lessons are learnt and applied when Ph2 kicks off. New routes proposed pass through some of the most congested arteries in the city, and we cannot affort to keep them cardoned off for decades. Do we have any idea on the planning / logistics? Or is it too early?

Vasanth's picture

Monorail as feeder to Metro - No progress

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Well, due to Metro Fever, Monorail proposals that come quiet regularly in news papers are now in air. I feel there is a need to connect high traffic zones in a radius of around 3-5 kms  from a Metro by Mono such as Mono in the whitefield area connecting Marathalli and surrounding areas which are always crowded,.

There was a proposal by CTTP to connect National College Circle to Kattriguppe via Hanumantnagar, Srinivasnagar and Vidyapeeta. I still feel there is a need for such a feeder route looking at the very high density of traffic on the 50 feet road, Sreenivas Nagar, Vidyapeeta. Roads are narrow and with sharp turning radius. I

think we need a single line circular monorail or circular Elevated Light Rail network around Metro Stations in Highly Densly Populated localities. In localities, where traffic density is less, it can be done with Buses .

 

Clive VanBuerle's picture

Extention to ITPL

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The proposed extension to ITPL was announced in the Phase 2 approval; This corridor has 14 stations -- Jyothipuram, KR Puram, Narayanapura, Mahadevapura, Garudacharpalya, Doddanakundi, Visvesvaraya Industrial Estate, Kundalahalli, Vaidehi Hospital, Satyasai Medical Institute, ITPL, Kadugodi, Ujwala Vidyalaya and Whitefield.  I tried to create an alignment based on Google maps but some stations were not in the logical path e.g. Garudacharpalya, Doddanakundi, Visvesvaraya Industrial Estate and Kadugodi, Ujwala Vidyalaya and Whitefield, unless by Whitefield they mean Whitefield station – can someone intelligent on Bangalore localities and geography please give a shot at deciphering the actual alignment.

Same request for alignment for the IIMB to Nagavara corridor!!

Clive VanBuerle's picture

reply to Naveen:to provide 2 new interchange stations

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Sir, the image you uploaded is too small to view and when zoomed in the names of the stations get blurred, also all links do not work. 

Naveen's picture

@Clive VanBuerle

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Please post me your email & I will send you a map with better resolution - you may see the stations in sequential order along the line/s.

Try this link for DH article.

Also, another article here.

doc.aneesh's picture

Whitefield line

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doc.aneesh's picture

dhttp://i1142.photobucket.com

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dhttp://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n602/docaneesh/reach1stns-1.jpg

 

Here's the link..

 

And Doddanekkundi = Doddanekkundi industrial area (near Gopalan school/bhoruka gases)

Kadugodi = Kadugodi Industrial Area (near BPL,MICO)

Whitefield = Whitefield Railway station

doc.aneesh's picture

Whitefield line

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http://i1142.photobucket....

 

Try this

Kundalahalli (proper) is behind the airports authority of India building. Hence, the first Epip station (maybe near SAP labs) will ne named kundalahalli since it is 1 km from the village. And by doddanekkundi and kadugodi they probably mean their namesake Industrial areas. And as usual, whitefield station will be in kadugodi (near WFD rly stn)
Vasanth's picture

How the Hanging Bridge will be handled?

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Have a doubt on the alignment near Hanging Bridge and KR Puram Railway Station Hanging Bridge.

doc.aneesh's picture

hanging bridge

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The logical alignment is probably going south of the hanging bridge (tin factory - lowry memorial) because the other side has the k r puram rly stn and also to cross the bridge the metro viaduct may have to go atleast 500m. Also the diesel poco shed prevents the track to get back on the whitefield road easily. In all probability the metric viaduct should go south of the bridge without having to cross the railway tracks
Naveen's picture

At grade

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probably going south of the hanging bridge

The Whitefield extension will proceed at grade (probably), parallel, adjacent & south of existing railway tracks (under the hanging bridge) before it starts ramping up to align itself with Whitefield road.

doc.aneesh's picture

where's the space?

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Take a look at the satellite images of the area on maps.google.com: I thought going close to the tracks was impossible. But maybe it is.. I wouldn't know for sure :) Come to think of it, it could be how jyotipuram is getting a station..
Vasanth's picture

Again Railways non co-operation will come into play

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Going in parallel to the existing SWR tracks at Grade with Third Rail, I am thinking how safe it would be. Also railways non-coperation movement will start like on the Tumkur track for Reach 3.

srinidhi's picture

Think they will go elevated

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Think they will go elevated in front of shell petrol bunk on OMR(front of RMZ)and fly over the salem line and travel on the tin factory side..eventually they will again criss-cross the ring road before heading into mahadevapura..atleast then the railways will make over the small piece of land that they are holding out from the BDA..which was needed for the ORR widening..

Guess it cannot run parallel to railway line because there is simply not enough land!

Clive VanBuerle's picture

  I love the idea of going

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I love the idea of going Grade but not having sufficient technical knowledge would not know why that sometime poses a problem. Considering that it will eliminate the need for pillars and sections it would also be less time consuming. If they went Grade along Old Madras Rd. (shell bunk/big bazzar and RMZ) under the Salem Line, along Tin Factory and over Lowry Memorial and then gradually went elevated along Mahadevapura until the termination at Whitefield station it would make sense. The Dallas Area Rapid Transport Trains are mainly grade with potions going underground and elevated as an e.g.

Comments?

Also can someone in the group explain the Nagavara to IIMB corridor in the same amount of detail?

 

Clive VanBuerle's picture

Namma Metro Article in railway technology.com

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Folks I stumbled upon this article - very informative views into the tunnelling work of Namma Metro!!!

http://www.railway-technology.com/features/feature127363/

srinidhi's picture

PH II..why go underground at cemetries??

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The map of PHII that is floating around in papers these days talk of IIMB-Nagavara line going underground at diary circle itself!

This is probably because of the narrow roads that follow after that on the bannerghatta road till Hosur road..

The route simply doesnt make sense..instead they can stay elevated and turn onto marigowda road  and get to hosur road..stay elevated on hosur road till just before jhonson market..

This will save cost as well as promote ridership for sure..

 

doc.aneesh's picture

cemetery

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You can't dig foundation excavations on cemeteries can you? And that marigowda road curve is so sharp that it would have to be negotiated at 10 kmph (grossly exaggerating). And going underground from elevated will take space..
shubha's picture

Exact location of Narayanapura

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Why there no information abt narayanapura{white field road} phase 2 station .There are many rumers abt station y no one is clarifing

 

sanjayv's picture

Phase -2 info on BMRC website

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I found a document with some details about Metro Phase II as well as a detailed map at the end of the document.  Please find the document here. (PDF)

Also found this section on route alignment petitions.  Looks like the alignment from KR Puram to Whitefiled, especially, the portion through EPIP area is receiving a lot of petitions and requests.  See here.

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