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BBMP wants fee for on - street parking

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“We(BBMP) will be charging a nominal Rs 100 per annum from vehicle owners for parking their vehicles from 10 pm to 8 am. Around 15 lakh 

vehicles are parked on the road or on pavements. Even if around eight lakh people start paying a parking fee, the BBMP will get Rs 8 crore, which is not a small amount. We can utilise this money for the developments of pavements,” he said

More here. Wassup with these adhoc decissions? Finding a revenue source should not be the impetus for decissions like on-street parking..instead the parking itself needs to be seen as a menace and dealt with differently!

We have talked about zoning where residents of certain localities would get exclusive permits to allow them park on their street..this will prevent others from parking infront of houses..its such decissions which should lead to parking restrictions and eventually as a fallout there is revenue collection!

 

Comments

Bheema.Upadhyaya's picture

This would be my approach

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 1. Take a survey for following for each street to arrive at parking density.

a) Local registered vehicles. (Vehicles which are registered in nearest RTO)

b) Out-of-state registered vehicles

c) Type of vehicles

d) Width of road

e) Type of parking (Legal /Illegal)

f) Reason of parking there ( Rented Tenant/Guest/Tourist/and lot more)

2. Analyze the last point (1f) first to provide if any out-of-box solution can be given.

3. Arrive at following statistics 

- what would it take to provide real parking space. is that possible from using (already collected tax-payer's money)?

- how much money can be collected from illegal parking instead of collecting money for legally parked vehicles?

- how much it would take to build a sustainable and reliable parking fee collection system?

4. Put the whole picture to public via BBMP website, allow debating.

5. Propose solutions and alternate solutions.

For example:

-Out station vehicles shall pay more fines (to discourage out station vehicle and to encourage local registrations)

-Commercial vehicles(Cabs/Trucks etc) shall pay more fees( if BBMP wants to discourage private operators using public space.) 

-Resident vehicles shall be given passes. 

Parking fee will be collected for next 10 years. 

a) 40% of collected money will be spent on building new parking space (authentically audited expense statements will be published)

b) 40% of collected money shall be spent to build pavements.

c) 10% of collected money shall be spent on signages.

d) 10% of money shall be spent of collection system itself

6. Implement

7. Evaluate and publish progress and improve system.

 

More thoughts would come, I am sure.

 

" My mantra to public bodies=> Enable->Educate->Enforce. Where does  DDC  fit?"
dvsquare's picture

Pointless and baseless method

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I mean, how this method is going to help prevent congestion on roads or to get the revenue.

If they really want to do something about the illegal parking, they should do something about the vehicles parked on the major roads causing traffic jams or letting a percentage of the road usage to go waste. I mean, I can understand, this is not good to park on the roads or pavements, but at the sametime, parking there after citi goes to sleep, it doesn't pose any major problem till the time we are done with the major problems in the day time.

BBMP or Traffic police, why are they not doing anything about the cars/cabs being parked just below the "no-parking" boards, why why? Those are penalized first, removed from there first and clear the roads for the swifter traffic movement. Even on the airport road and the entry where you get inside the airport campus, you can see many cabs just parked in "no-parking" "tow-away" zone, but nobody touches them, nobody. Similary, there are many narrow roads (not even 4 lanes), and half of the road is actually used by parking, that too where no-parking board is there.

Another reason, why I am saying that BBMP plan to collect annual fee is not going to actually generate any net revenue, because they may need to spend the same money to collect the parking fees in a legal way and without any corruption, etc, I mean, how will they ensure that fees have been collected properly and accounted for. In bangalore, its not like that the people who stay in house, they park their vehicle out side their house or on pavement, I see many of the cab drivers, after their shift, they take the vehicle with them and park it anywhere near their house, anywhere, how will account for such people and vehicles? And lets say, if they are able to come up with any fool-proof plan (which is not possible, they are not able to catch up that culprit abscondign corporator yet), the net revenue will be very less.

Instead, they should better try to enforce the laws what they already have, and generated revenue from those. It will help in 2 ways - (1) Generate the revenue as well as (2) enforce the laws and make people follow rules and laws.

Deepak

 

idontspam's picture

Whopeee

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As much as it might offend us, the idea of collecting a parking fee for parking on the street is a very good move. They should make ORR tolled and all vehicles entering inside the ORR cordon & people already living/parking within the ORR region should pay for parking on the street. Rs 100 per annum is nominal and a good start its what we spend on a single lunch on some days/weekends. For those not wanting to pay, provision for parking should be made outside the ORR nearcorridor roads and public transport should be provided. BBMP needs to work closely with DULT, BMTC/KSRTC, BMRCL etc to do this properly. I suggest they engage a proper professional organization to make this paid parking integrate seamlessly with public transport modes. This self determination & one time fee will be quickly forgotten, it has to be charged as and when people park and ony for the duration people park. BBMP is taking the easy way out. But I like the intent

dvsquare's picture

Its not wrong, but before that lots to be done that surrounds it

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Before BBMP go ahead and go for collecting parking or any kind of fee as driving/parking on the road, the only people affected would be people like us, who anyways always pay income tax, parking fees and any other tax imposed on us honestly, and plus we don't park in no-parking zones, because even after doing so, how will they prevent the poeple parking on no-parking zones in ORR or any area. BBMP first need to find its ways to enforce no-parking rules properly wherever marked, and then should go ahead with any other plans which surrounds this.

In my opinion, collecting parking fee is not wrong, but before that a few things are very bad in shape, can they first make it work. Can they remove all the vehicles/cab etc standing on the ORR or service lanes at no-parking zones, you will see, already a lot of traffic jam wil be reduced and congestion will lessen. Also, there are many other places like Sagar Appolo Hospital near Banerghatta Road, a few other hospital in Jayanagar area, they are just treating the road outside them as their private property for parking. First those should be taken care of them, and then they should come to common-man asking for parking fee and all. Otherwise what would happend after implementation of parking fees is that, we all be paying parking/driving fees on any road we will be driving on, and these hospitals, shops, malls etc will continue using the roadspace for their private use.

Deepak

srinidhi's picture

zoning can help parking..

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  • Zoning can be done where 4-5 parallel streets in a locality can be bunched to make a zone and permits can be issues only for houses in those zones only. For ex. 3rd block Jayanagar can be divided into 2-3 zones
  • The number of parking permits could be based on the size of the plot the house/s is on. For ex. a 30X40 site can accomodate just one car in front, a 40X60 can do 2. This is because we in Blr are good in putting up 4 houses on 4 floors on a 30X40 site!
  • Parking permit to be limited to non-commercial vehicles only. This will avoid PTV and cabs/autos

@Deepak

The 'no parking' boards are like humps in Blr..local influential folks get them put up according to their whims..and whenever they are in legit locations too..i.e close to junctions etc..again the influential store owners pay the cops to continue parking..so its a vicious cycle 

Implementing parking zones can lead to loop holes too..where more than prescribed permits can be issued..and there could be fakes too..but then we have to start somewhere!

silkboard's picture

what is wrong - this is needed, isn't it?

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May be adhoc, BBMP may be doing flip flop on on-street parking issues, but what is wrong with this?

Why wouldn't I build bedrooms instead of garages, and use the street to park cars? Why would I not start treating the setback space (between my house and street) as "almost" mine, and develop nice green lawns there to "prevent" others from parking their cars there? Respect for "public space" comes when you charge for its "misuse".

If you buy a car, you must have space inside your property to keep it. What is wrong with that expectation?

Please BBMP, go ahead an implement it. And use the money for making pavements. Day time - no parking, night time - for-free parking. And in my opinion, Rs 100 is TOO LESS.

Bheema.Upadhyaya's picture

Nothing wrong, but do in right way

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 I am sure majority people would agree that. But issue as pointed above is :

a) Will the system be developed, implemented, maintained, improved in right way?

b) Will the system be fool-proof, allowing culprits to still escape?

Be it a parking fees or any other system here, issue is strict implementation. I am sure 100s of people there to break system and give/take money. 

All will agree that many systems are brought in with good intentions, but end up creating more problem than solution.

I am trying to imagine how BBMP would be able to collect parking fees from cases below(though its micro level analysis, which is too early), for example

a) Bullock Carts/Push carts who also occupy spaces. They are not registered anywhere(?).

b) Rented tenants keeping vehicles (They do not appear in any records in BBMP !!!, I had suggested local registration long back for the same cause). We can assume most of cab drivers autos will be rented tenants. Is BBMP going to charge fees to house owners, who built 4 houses in 30*40 site as pointed in another comment above? 

c) How about government/company owned vehicles parked elsewhere? Lets say a Mangalore vehicle owned by Durgamba parked in Gandhinagar Bangalore? How is that dealt?

 

" My mantra to public bodies=> Enable->Educate->Enforce. Where does  DDC  fit?"
pathykv's picture

Parking on streets

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Charging for parking on public spaces  is a very good step.

There should be differentiation between the residents parking and third parties parking, the charges being much higher for the latter.

K.V.Pathy

dvsquare's picture

Lot of things to be taken care first before BBMP makes new plan

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Nothing wrong in this, but as I said earlier, BBMP itself is not able to handle many loopholes present in its current paring-no-parking spaces and methods, how it will be able to make sure that new plan foolproof.

I agree that a property owner should properly make the garages in their house and not just bedrooms, but all houses are done, how BBMP wll make sure that they are going to charge legally and without any loopholes, where there are many tenants out there in bangalore.

If you take an example of Jayanagar 3rd and 4th block, all the residential roads near the complex etc, those roads are marked with even-odd date parking method, but during major times, you will see cars being parked on both sides, thus making vehicles who want to pass by difficult or say impossible. People like me and you will yearly pay the Rs.100 every year honestly, but what we will get in return is that when we want to go from those streets, we cannot, right? Because those are basic things need to be fixed before we get into new plans or similar plans. That is the point I have been trying to say.

I am totally with BBMP saying that road is their property and they have all the rights to take fees from the people using it.

How will the accountability will be taken care of? It is going to generate revenue but how honestly they are going to make pavements out of it? and if they make it also, then how are they enforcing the poeple to not to use those pavements for extension of the shops etc, as its being done at many places in jayanagar or koramangala. I need those things to be fixed first wherever we have no-parking (valid ones) and wherever encroachment is on the pavements, fix them first, otherwise whatever new you are going to do wil again be dedicated for the same.

@Srinidi,

Yes, this is also true that many no-parking are iilegal or not-valid, but again they have to break that loop-hole otherwise what is the use of making new plans and give away a lot of loopholes with every other plan.
Who will be sufferer? people like me or you. People like travel agents who have a lot of vehicles, cab drivers or autos or influentical people who want to keep their cars out and give the garage rent out, they will still be happy or pay Rs. 100 and still continue they are doing. More than the revenue there will be scam and scene on the roads will still be the same.

- - -

All, I want to say is to advice BBMP is that first fix atleast the things which you are taking as the basics in the new plans/methods. Like new plan is about parking fee, please fix the current parking spots, no-parking spots and enforce them first and then build other plans on top of it, surely they will live for long and foolproof and we can build a better bengalore, cleaner bangalore, greener bangalore.

Deepak

idontspam's picture

The way they are doing it is

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The way they are doing it is definitely not foolproof. Since property is undergoing a lot of verification they are planning to ride on that verification mechanism to get this declaration done as well. Nothing prevents wrong declaration & thats what the whole city has been doing anyway. 

I definitely believe parking meters in business areas & parking permits in residential areas are the way to go. We have start zoning like Sri says and charge parking fees approproately. This is definitely not as simple as saying we will charge R100 & we are done. It will NOT have any impact other than a peanut revenue for covering BBMP pocket change expenses. I dont know who is advising them on this. This is not rocket science & there are very well established parctices across the globe which they should borrow.

The goals of a parking fee must be decongestion, orderlinesss & promotion of Public transport, the money is a byproduct which will anyway come. They have got objectives screwed up. And the articulation of both reasons & the objective is horrendous to say the least.

Ravi_D's picture

@IDS...Everything looks yellow...

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... to a jaundiced eye.

We're talking BBMP my friend, money money money.

They talk of improving pavements. This is improvement - already knowing where to spend it!

idontspam's picture

 We're talking BBMP my

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 We're talking BBMP my friend, money money money.

Probably they have been sold that reason so they can get around to implementing it. Otherwise they use ideological BS to keep an approved paid parking plan in the coolers. Let them start charging then we can work with them to improve the system.

People have push for transparency and ask BBMP "What is the garuntee you will spend on sidewalks, Do it in a way we can see & show us the plan for measuring this outcome", instead of "I dont want you to charge because I cant see."

rackstar's picture

court stay

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I think this move by BBMP won't be stayed by courts as this doesnt look unconstitutional. However bbmp saying it owns all the roads and footpaths is a bit too much. With just 100 rs per year fee it will be difficult to implement, Rs 400-500 would be right amount to charge for street parking. Those who have car parking lot in their house can anyway show proof and exempt from it.

dvsquare's picture

"Those who have car parking

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"Those who have car parking lot in their house can anyway show proof and exempt from it."

This is where I am afraid of, that this can be easily altered and can be bribed and at the end innocent poeple only get affected , noone else.

There are arund 1L autos in the city, they are going to strike for the same if any extra penny is asked from them, and I am sure they are definitely not going to have space for parking their autos.

The same is the case with travel-tour operators and citi cabs. They will just bribe and keep things working.

And Rs. 100 is too less to be worth for anything like that, I mean, its too less for bribe also, but wil be made so fuss about it.

And, before BBMP go ahead with it, I would definitely want them to fix the current illegal parking and no-parking, fix the mess created by a few private hospitals, resturants etc, who are illegally using the public roads for their private parking and fooling the govt.

New rules made will definitely be good about parking fees, but they need to see how much they actually can implement it without any loopholes. That's my main point is.

Deepak

idontspam's picture

There are lot of holes in the

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There are lot of holes in the way it is being implemented. Vehicles by nature are mobile & can be parked in many places not just at the residence. The congestion in different areas varies by the economic activity in the area. Thus by charging one time and attaching it to an immovable asset like property we are missing out on major aspects of vehicular control. This also misses out on great majority of migrant/outstation vehicles which may visit occasionally but also add to vehicular population. While using property tax as a point of collection is fine it cannot be the only point of collection. 

Also post collection there has to be a way to provide acknowledgement in the form of permits which can be displayed on the vehicle by the people who have paid as a part of their property tax or otherwise. Without issuance & display of permit the whole thing can be reduced into a collecting exercise only without attendant control on the vehicle.Lot has been said about parking permits here.

These permits should be classified on zones & fares adjusted accordingly, so if you were to park in CBD you get a maybe a red permit costing higher than a maybe yellow permit for non CBD congestion zones & a green permit for residential zones. THe higher fees will cover the lower permits also, means a Red permit will work for both Yellow & green zones, a yellow will work in green zones as well but  the green will not work in red & yellow zones. Visiting vehicles should be able to buy these permits in Bangalore one centers, at check posts or even in select stores. The permits should carry bar/magnetic codes for backend validation by the relevant authority. 

Questions of enforcement need to be asked right now, who wil enforce not just the payment but the checking of the same? What is the checks & balances put in that will link this to any type of congestion control? On what basis R100/year was arrived upon? How is this ilnked to congestion vehicular population control etc. By only focusing on the collection of payment they have pushed the entire checking control validation resultant outcome measure etc under the carpet.

Simply put where are the permits & the parking inspectors?

Anithasunil's picture

freakanomics - day care example

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http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/15/books/chapters/0515-1st-levitt.html

This is an example given in the book freakanomics. Guess that same might apply to the BBMP fine.

Now, there might be a lot of violators.. But even then, there are a lot of honest people too.. who spend money to build garages in their houses.

Now, introduce free parking on the street for Rs100/- per month, and many might do away with building it. Anyway, they are not erring by parking on the road!

 

idontspam's picture

 Now, introduce free parking

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 Now, introduce free parking on the street for Rs100/- per month, and many might do away with building it.

...Until they discover a few years down the line that it costs them R100 per hour to park on the street & then it will be too late. The key in disincentive lke in any other fines is that it has to be prohibitive for most people if not all.

If you collect R100 for overspeeding most people will pay & speed, but if you collect R1000 the number of people will be less & it will be miniscule for R5000. If you are jailed 5 years for murder it is less meaningful than if you were hanged for the same crime. But 5 years is enough to get the murderer off the street, by when you will amend the law and make it death penalty.

Logicanomics as I call it is about pegging the penalty to the per capita of the majority of the population who commit the violation. 

Anyway, they are not erring by parking on the road!

Even though both the article & I use the analogy to prove a point, parking fee is not a penalty at all, it is a disincentive in order to advance a greater common good. This disincentive if done right will dovetail into the incentive part, which is what the rest of the projects in praja are about, commuter rail, bicycling, bus priority etc. 

imran_huq17's picture

Advisors of BBMP....

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I wonder who advises BBMP on the Parking issues .They seem to be so many FLIP-FLOPS or just FLOPS.

An utter waste of public money is the multi storeyed parking on the JC Road. People seldom use it and vehicles continued to be parked on the road and the authorities had NO WILL  to implement the idea of using the multi storyed parking.( Officially parking has been banned on J.C. Road from Minerva Circle to N.R. Square and on H. Siddaiah Road from J.C. Road junction to Lalbagh Road junction)

The thought building of  parking bays below playgrounds was another example where  BBMP failed miserably to give a proper solution to the parking issues.

If atall BBMP Wants to collect the fees to impove the parking infrastructure the simplest way would to include the Parking Fees with the property tax and let the individuals declare if they park their vehicles on the road.   BBMP seems to be conducting checks for SAS, so along with that they could verify the avalability of parking in the building.The owner can be charged for the cars parked by his tenants which he can include as a part of the rent.(If his premisis is let out).

There can be suitable penalties if someone has made wrong declarations also there can be exceptions if the car is bought within 1 year .....the finer details can be looked into if the approach is agreed in principle.

Also,BBMP Can tie up with BESCOM and RTO to collect this fees.From RTO they can get the info of properties on which the vehicles are registerd.BESCOM can check if the parking space is availabe or not and can also be used to collect the parking fees.

I feel BBMP should be practical and simple  in its approach on what they CAN DO .It is also no use unnecessarly complicating the issue. I am just thinking loud and i am sure my sugesstion also may not be the best and may have some pro's and con's.

As pointed out by many people it is not unreasonable for BBMP to demand money from people who park their vehicles on roads.Again the important thing is the IMPLEMENTATION...............!!!!!!!!!!

 

Regards,

Imran.

 

dvsquare's picture

Any plans of BBMP are just somewhere out of the blue

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They don't think, they don't care, they just blabber.

Another news from the Bangalore mirror yesterday -

Now, builders just pay BBMP to eat up open spaces

This clearly means that BBMP is just running behind the money and forget every other thing about city welfare, city gardens, the green cover, the citizens.

And so ironic that, even whatever money BBMP has, there is no proper accounting, as I remember reading some news a few days back about BBMP money lying here and there unaccounted(unknown).

Can't the goverment and authorities see how the drastically the bangalore weather is changing, I mean, 36-38 C in afternoons and around 17-18 in nights, how worsely affect the weather to all us citizens. The days and summers are getting hotter and winters are getting cooler as compared to previous years. And now a days no rains for so so long, it never used to happen, rain was a regular phenomenon.

Seeing all these, authorities still cutting trees for road-widening. I agree the development is necessary but we cannot do it on the cost of our living right? Its a high time and authorities have to stop chewing money and give a little thought for the city. They say that replantation will be done, saplings will be planted at various places, but you,me and everybody knows, who cares and maintains those after the plantation day, so how will they be able to maintain even 10% of green coverage.

Deepak

swasha's picture

parking on the streets

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The idea of parking on the road itself should be discouraged.  If there is no space to park your vehicle you may not need a vehicle, but you want own one for EGO (aham) to show the localites you are well of.    When you are well off move to an apartment where parking lot will be available.    IN CITIZEN MATTERS WEBSITE I HAD MENTIONED THAT THOSE WHO CAN AFFORD PARKING WITHOUT USING THE ROAD CAN PURCHASE ANY NUMBER OF VEHICLES.   I ALSO SUGGESTED THAT IF THE PROSPECTIVE BUYER DOES NOT HAVE A PARKING PLACE FOR THE VEHICLE HE SHOULD NOT BE OFFERED A VEHICLE.  THI WILL REDUCE CONGESTION ON THE ROAD ALSO.   WHO WILL CARE FOR MY SUGGESTION,   LET THEM GO TO ******


k n g rao's picture

By the time this reaches your

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By the time this reaches your desk the subject would be a forgotten matter.

I am of the opinion oarking of vehicles other than the owners in front of the houses in residential areas shoud be banned  during day or night as it would  disturb the residents. Recently the police commission-rtraffic had   said no specific law to say that only"i can park my vehicle "  in which case a law or a guideline is requir ed.Hence if the resident  feels that they are being disturbed   or feel lack of privacy the guidline line  sho uld be in favour of the residents/house owners who normally request  against  such parking .It would be advisible for such vehicle owners/drivers to heed to the request of the residents to aovoid unpleasentness.

Alternatively.parking in the commercai areas during nights may thought of precribing a fee

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