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Big10 concept - Circle Routes are here?

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I have been seeing these new routes marked C-1 (for Circle 1 ?) for a few weeks now. Was waiting for some crisp annnouncement or press release, haven't noticed anything big yet, so posting.

Pretty colorful body, so much so that when I asked a few waiting passengers near Intel, they thought it was some private bus. Once you read the sign board carefully - 500 something - you may not have this confusion.

So will all the 500 routes get merged into this C-1? I haven't noticed any route merges (333P, 333E etc) on the Big10 routes yet, but this one may be different - 500D could simply be converted into C-1. Merging other 500 extensions may not happen sooon enough, though we know that converting major points on Outer Ring Road into bus exchange points (get off Circle route, get into a Big10, or a local route) will be the way to go.

Lets wait to see and hear more.

Comments

murali772's picture

feeder and Ho-Ho - my suggestions

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(Click on image to enlarge)

Muralidhar Rao
silkboard's picture

Trunk routes and local zones

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Tried drawing out the possible dream to chase. Radial lines aren't aligning perfectly with the actual routes (Big10, or Metro), as I did a quick one to convey the concept/possibility.

  • Trunk routes are radial (to fit with city's road shape. We all know a north-south east-west set of trunk routes would be idea, but our trunk roads are not like that
  • Radial trunk route = mostly Big10, Metro as well (OMR, South Line) when it is ready
  • Focus on city's future - the zones between Outer Ring Road and Peripheral Ring Road
  • Mark out zones with trunk routes as boundaries. Focus local routes inside the "zones"
  • Trunk routes to have very few but key stops at:
    • Designated points to serve as transfers to local zones
    • Intersections with other trunk routes

Will try a better aligned version of this if needed. Is this where we should or would be headed with Big10 and Circles?

Sunil Kumar's picture

Spotted BIG Blue Route

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I have noticed BIG Blue BMTC Buses,they are just like our BIG 10 Route but the color of the bus is Blue in Color. The Route I have noticed is B2 from Electronics City to Peenya via Cantt. Station.  Do any of you have an update of this new BIG Blue route's. BIG 10  should be termed as BIG 12 as I have noticed BMTC is running BIG 12 route from Corporation Office to Hedgenagar. This bus belogs to Depot No. 30 of Puttenhalli. I went thru the BMTC site to check on these new routes but the site is not updated yet. At Hebbal I have Noticed BIG Circle Route C-2 from Hebbal to Banshankari.

Lot of new colors to the BMTC fleet.

If BMTC can make a press release to the convience of the public it wouldbe great.

Sunil Kumar

silkboard's picture

Blue route mystery (can Ashwin clarify?)

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Here is what I know

  • Green routes - The G1 to G12 (yes, it should be caled Big12, there are 12 routes now, but lets just stick to Big10 as the code-name for this routing reform) are radial routes
  • Blue routes - These go through the city, "diameter routes" if you will, for lack of a better term.
  • Colorful/White routes - Circles

The idea about converting Big10 to Big5 was discussed here in past (search "Big5"), but frankly, I am not clear on why the city will need both radial (G1- G-12) as well as through/diameter (B-1, B-2 etc) routes right now.

  • The positive?
    • No need to change the bus if you are going through the city. Think operational efficiencies for BMTC, along with some convenience for commuters who would want to go through the city.
    • Perhaps, clear directional routing in the strict sense of the word. I mean, "going all the way east" sounds clearer than "going to the CBD".
  • The negative?  (Esp right now)
    • Longer routes + crowded roads would cause too much bunching.
    • If the G1-G12 are going to exist along with Blue routes, confusion would be another negative

What else? How else do you look at this? Perhaps Ashwin Mahesh himself can clarify.

pathykv's picture

BMTC routes mystery

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I hope Ashwin will clarify.

What about BMTC responding to our suggestions on this and other problems?

May I request Manjari/Rithesh to try for an early meeting/joint visit to Jngr TTMC with BMTC to follow up our efforts and take them to their logical conclusion?

K.V.Pathy

s_yajaman's picture

Which Big 5

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One of things to consider is which Big 5?  There are 12C2 possible trunk routes.  Let's assume that some adjacent ones are removed e.g. Yeshwantpur--Yelahanka combination and so on.  Let's see

Mysore Road can connect with --> Whitefield Rd, OM Road, Sarjapur Road

Tumkur Road --> Hosur Road, Whitefield Road, Sarjapur Road

Hosur Road --> Yelahanka, Tumkur Road, Hennur Road

Do this for all roads.  You might have 20 logical combinations.  So which 5 combinations makes sense in our scheme of things?  What frequency? 

Apart from this there is the driver fatigue to be dealt with.  One plus is that buses don't wait in our already crowded CBD.

Srivathsa

 

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

murali772's picture

Blue service blues

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@Yajamaanre' - With the extended Big-10 (blue) service, besides, the numberings will go haywire, and consequently predictability. Apart from that is also the driver fatigue factor, when the routes become lengthy, as you have very rightly pointed out.

And, that's why I have suggested 3 or more Ho-Ho circuits in the CBD. The South-East one will possibly link Big-10 routes 1,2,3,4 & 10, the loop touching Corporation Circle at one end and Trinity Circle at the other. Likewise, routes 5,6,7 can be linked to the 2nd ho-ho; and, 8,9 & 11 to the 3rd. Now, if the ho-ho loops turn out too circuitous, perhaps an additional inner ho-ho can be added, going around Cubbon park and touching City and Can't stations, and linking all the other ho-ho loops.

Now, this will require commuters to accept the idea of a few of change-overs. But, with good frequencies that should not be a serious problem. It should be realised that trying to serve everyone, door-to-door, has led to the present situation of 1800 odd routes, serving no one adequately.

Another possibility here is the uniform per ride charge, irrespective of the distance travelled, which, with some bit of simple automation, can possibly eliminate the conductor (and revenue leakage therewith), apart from simplifying operations considerably.
 

Muralidhar Rao
ash.mahesh's picture

Big10 and BigCircle

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There is a general acceptance of the view that direction-based routing is necessary going forward, and BMTC is constituting a working group to develop this strategy more fully. I'll try to bring this to a close this month-end (your inputs welcome) and see how we can roll out more of the missing pieces.

Some explanations re the existing routes.

a. Big 10 green buses run on radial routes (i.e. on one side of town)

b. Big 10 blue buses run on diameter routes, but do not span the whole diameter. Instead they start from the terminus of one route (Electronics city) and go half way up another route (Peenya, along the Tumkur Road route). The numbering is according to the terminus. I.e. B2 runs from Electronics City to Peenya, while B8 will run from Nelamangala to Bommanahalli.

c. Big Circle is a set of 4 overlapping routes on ORR - 500 series buses will be renumbered in this pattern going forward.

d. There is a proposal to bring Kendra Saarige back, this time using non-AC buses, and in a slightly larger loop. This K-series is being finalised.

e. Shuttle loops and local loops have to be worked out this month.

Someone asked why B2 and G2 are overlapping. My understanding is as follows - overlapping is usually an effective way to double up service on higher-demand sections, while allowing only a smaller subset of buses to run on the lower-demand segment. For instance, we may consider that most people from Electronics City would get off the bus before Brigade Road, whereas a smaller subset would like to go to the other side of the city. This kind of 'cut-service' arrangements are common in most direction based services, including Metro rail ones.

This link may explain a few things better than my words above - http://www.btis.in/images...

I hope we can drive this faster, and roll out more pieces soon. Many thanks, as always, for your support.

A

s_yajaman's picture

Routes I would like to see

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 I would like to see some routes that help connect nearby locations to each other bypassing Majestic, ORR and SBS.  Examples

a. Jayanagar 9th block to Domlur via East End Road, Dairy Circle, Forum, Koramangala Kalyana Mantapa, National Games Village, Viveknagar, Command Hospital

This route will connect Jayanagar to BG Road (IT parks), Forum (shopping), Koramangala to Domlur.  It will give people who stay in Koramangala and Viveknagar the option to take 335E and G1 to ITPL side by changing at Domlur. 

Distance is approximately 12 km and can be covered in 45 to 60 mins. 

b. Koramangala to Frazer Town via Inner Ring Road, Indiranagar 100ft Road, OM Road, Ulsoor Lake and Coles Park.  

This route will provide connectivity along an important SE corridor towards the North East.  Also gives an option to people in Frazer Town area the option of  going to Domlur (catching 335E) and Koramangala to catch buses towards E-City.

Distance is about 12 km

c. Domlur to Kalyan Nagar via Airport Road, Suranjandas Road, CV Raman Nagar (with a possible loop in and out of Bagmane Tech Park), Benniganahalli, ORR.  (about 15 km)

 

d. JP Nagar 6th Phase to CV Raman Nagar via JP Nagar 9th Cross, Jayadeva, SilkBoard, Koramangala 80ft Road, IRR, Doopanahalli, Thippasandra Main Road (18 km).

IDS - can you plot these out on a map and paste them so that one can see the full picture?

Srivathsa

 

 

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

Vasanth's picture

Big Circle .. Full Circle would be advantageous

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 Prof Mahesh, big circle buses running full circle or atleast 1/2  the circle would be very helpful. Right now, because of the disconnects at Banashankari, Silkboard, Marathalli and Hebbal, it is hard to switchover. Usually these junctions are messy to cross the road and catch the other bus.

For example my office is on ORR in Doddenakundi (between Marathalli and KR Puram) and home is at a walkable distance on ORR in BSK 3rd Stg, Ktgpe. Occassionally I get direct buses, but no A/C buses. I have to take 500K and change to any other bus from Marathalli. If we have to take these big circle cutted version, I have to come to Banashankari Bus Station, change till Silkboard, again change one more at Marathalli. 

Lot of people work in the ORR SEZs between Agara and Marathalli. These people badly need frequent buses. Evening after 6 it is worst. The disconnects again will make it very inconvenient. It would be good if Big Circle is made atleast 1/2 circle between Kengeri and Hebbal on the Eastern portion of ORR with a guaranted frequency say 10 minutes during peak hours and 15 minutes during non peak hours.

Airconditioned buses are also needed along with normal buses to cater to different categories of people and attract the PT. I have seen Marcopolo running from Banashankari to Hebbal via western portion of ORR. If similar such buses are started with 10-15 minutes frequency during peak hours and 20 minute frequency during non-peak hours with services running till 10 (which is not present as of now and we can see dozens of passengers including myself waiting anxiously for the bus after 6 on the ORR at Marathalli, Silkboard, Banashankari) would help everyone a lot and improve the ridership.

Volvos would be very attractivive, but due to the cost involved, even Marcopolos which are cheaper, has more occupancy capacity and more fuel efficient can be good enough. V500A and V500D fleet can be merged to this service.

Let BMTC charge double fare and start night service too on the ORR as is done in some other sectors.

 

 

s_yajaman's picture

More routes I would like to see

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 The above routes are not so much about the ends they connect but that they traverse important roads and routes.  The idea is to take out BBS and SBS and put the buses starting and ending where there is less clutter.

On the same line

a. J.P.Nagar 3rd Phase to Kengeri Bus Stand -- 9th cross J.P.Nagar, 11th Main, 36th Cross Jayanagar,  Monotype, Subramanyapura Road, Uttarahalli, Ajwani Road, Rajarajeshwari Nagar, RV College.  Distance about 20km.

 

b. Jnana Bharathi to Shantinagar Bus Stand via Sh17, ORR, Girinagar, Banashankari I stage, Vanivilas Road, Lalbagh Main Gate. - 16 km.  From there on one can connect to 365, 356, 171.  

More later,

Srivathsa

 

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

idontspam's picture

 Good to get started with

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 Good to get started with something and tweak as we go along rather than wait for the perfect route.

Importantly hope a timetable can be issued for each bus route. Initially they may not be able to keep with the timings because of the traffic enroute. This is okay, because we will have data to understand which segments are causing delays and  put priority lanes to make them keep up time.

murali772's picture

direction-orientation, please!

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@Yajamaan
Your suggestions for new routes don't conform to 'direction orientation' that is being sought to be promoted here. It is going to introduce route no 1801, 1802, etc. If some point-to-point services are very essential, perhaps they should be left to the private sector to provide.

@Vasanth
I agree with your suggestion of providing continuous clockwise and anti-clockwise operations on the ring road, as well as on the inner ring road, if this is going to be implemented as planned. When that happens, a commuter has to just note the colour of the bus, and the direction in which it's moving, and board it.
 

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

time-table aenukke'?

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@ids
where's the need for any time-table in a direction-oriented operation? All you need to state are the starting timings of the first service and the last service, and then state that there will a service starting every 15 minutes between 6AM & 7AM; every 10 minutes between 7AM & 9AM; every 5 minutes between 9AM & 10.30 AM; every 10 minutes between 10.30AM and 5 PM, etc. In fact, in the case of some trunk routes, there can be skeleton services through the entire night, say every hour between 11PM and 6AM.
 

Muralidhar Rao
s_yajaman's picture

Direction orientation not a panacea

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 Murali-sir,

I did not intend for them to conform to any direction orientation.  I don't think that direction orientation can solve all our problems.   There is a need to cover the city as much as possible. As I said my routes try and cover as many localities and roads so that peoples' dependency on autos and bikes comes down.  People don't travel in directions - they want to reach a destination :).  

There is G-1 to G12.  Let us say that we get to 5 minute frequencies on each of them.  Total of 144 buses will be plying in one direction.  Dynamic capacity of say 70 or about 10000 people moved in 1 hour.  15 hours - 1,50,000 people.  Multiply by 2 for return trips - 300,000 people.  That is 10% of the total trips being made.   Unless you plan to stuff 200 people in each bus.  

You can think of my routing as a way to connect localities without having to touch KBS or SBS.  There is a need to have a mix of direction and point to point routes.  Whether by private players or BMTC.  

Srivathsa

 

 

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

idontspam's picture

 All you need to

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 All you need to state...

Everything you have stated is the time table.. just need to put it in a table on a simple A3 sheet, including a routemap with all the stops the bus will make enroute and pasted in the bus stop, distributed on the bus, made available online.

idontspam's picture

Interchanges & Evolution

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 One request will be for these routes to make necessary minor detours to connect metro and other train stations enroute. 

I am sure while these radials and circles form the trunk routes, the entire bangalore is not expected to be covered by these 200/400 buses. So these high capacity trunks will become interchange points (like metro & CRS etc) for other point to point routes. Over time they could use Janti-Vahanas to increase capacity and if priority and dedicated lanes are added it will become BRT. 

Vasanth's picture

Big Circle Route - RFC with little rationalization

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 This is my own vision of Big Circle route which instead of passing on ORR throughout, will have little rationaliztion on the Western portion from Nayandahalli to Lottigehalli passing through Vijaynagar, Basaveshwaranagar, Rajajinagar, Malleshwaram, Matthikere is densly populated compared to empty ORR especially from Nayandahalli to Kengeri and Kengeri to NagarbhaviLayout which was mainly built to bypass trucks from city.

We can have circular feeder routes touching this as well as Metro stations connecting interiors of Bangalore. This will prevent long trips as well as provide connectivity to densly populated and important localities.

Javascript is required to view this map.

ss87's picture

Though the strech is empty

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Though the strech is empty the buses are not. 401M and 501 series carry a huge amount of crowd especialy in the peak hour. Probably inner circle buses can be increased on this strech mentioned which can cater to the crowd. 205 and 205A cater to a protion but is not very frequent and takes a long detour to reach Vijayanagar from Hosakerahalli which tests the patience.

vinod_shankar's picture

Keep it as it is..

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I agree that the areas mentioned are densely populated ,but these areas that you have mentioned already have the lions share of BMTC buses plying. So i would suggest  Keep the big circle buses on the ring road, for future growth is also taken care of and make plans to introduce a inner circle(bigger KS) buses to cover  vijaynagar, basaveshwar nagara,malleshwaram, and also include areas in the north and east; which prof. ashwin has already mentioned in his comments.

Regards,

vinod

pravn1984's picture

@Vasanth - No full circle plz

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 Your suggestion of making big circle buses full circle/half circle might not solve the issue of frequency and in fact such a service might even aggravate the issue at hand.

 

I work in a company at bellandur and I have also observed that during peak hours buses are always filled and  consequently, commuters in this stretch cannot use the service. The buses get filled up from marathahalli and before.(and the volvos at ITPL). The issue here is although buses may be going in a big circle there is a unequal distribution of population along the ring road. In some bus stands, on a average, you will find more commuters. Having a full circle service will not solve the discrepancy. People in some areas will have to always climb packed buses.

So, my suggestion , which is the exact opposite of yours, is to have more different starting and ending terminating points. I understand that this  would mean the commuter would need to know probably look at the bus number before boarding but i think that would be smaller problem than the one we would be solving.

Different starting point in this case would ensure some people who wait a little longer can sit and travel and the ones who are in hurry can travel in the overcrowded ones. Also, every bus stand in ORR needs to be turned into a transit exchange point - sooner the better. In my opinion,Making each bus travel shorter distances  is the way to go.If the system gets streamlined -having good transit centres, single ticketing - ,making 2 or 3 transitions will not be a big deal and that is the future we should strive for.

 

idontspam's picture

 I have also observed that

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 I have also observed that during peak hours buses are always filled

Does our BMTC not study traffic patterns and ply the higher capacity Janti-Vahanas during Peak hour? Dont they talk to drivers and collect intelligence? I guess its like give the guys a bus in the morning and have them return it safe in the evening. Dont care what happens in between.

If the crowd is more than can fit a bendy-bus and a 5 minute frequency it is time for a light rail. 

Articulated bus

ss87's picture

With the introduction of new

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With the introduction of new buses many Janti Vahanas have gone off routes. Route No.2 where 3 janti vahanas were plying doesnt even have a single one now. similarly many of them have moved off and after 2005 they werent introduced also for reasons unknown. they were good capacity holders in the major routes. Hope BMTC introduces them back again.

pathykv's picture

FULL CIRCLE

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To help all, bus routes can start from different important bus stops and make full circle to the same stops. Changing buses costs time, energy and chaos at the messy bus stops and should be avoided.

K.V.Pathy

murali772's picture

my addl two paisa

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@Dr Ashwin Mahesh

Someone asked why B2 and G2 are overlapping. My understanding is as follows - overlapping is usually an effective way to double up service on higher-demand sections, while allowing only a smaller subset of buses to run on the lower-demand segment. For instance, we may consider that most people from Electronics City would get off the bus before Brigade Road, whereas a smaller subset would like to go to the other side of the city. This kind of 'cut-service' arrangements are common in most direction based services, including Metro rail ones.

Agreed, Doc. But, for how many of the routes are you going to be providing these extended cut services? Planning to base the decision on some survey, or something? Also, considering that these buses will have to move right across the heart of the city, wouldn't the movement be too slow, ending up with the commuters being better off taking the circular route, after a change over? And, there's also the driver fatigue factor. Besides, of course, you can't have the 'uniform charge per ride' too, and its considerable benefits.
 

@pravn1984

The issue here is although buses may be going in a big circle there is a unequal distribution of population along the ring road. In some bus stands, on a average, you will find more commuters. Having a full circle service will not solve the discrepancy.

Where there's less population (and therefore shorter stops), the buses will move faster, providing for a failry even distribution of the buses along the entire route. There's nothing like an ultimate solution. We have to see which is less un-satisfactory, if you want to put it that way. Continuous runs I believe meets the bill best.

 

@ids

Janti-vahana's are a pain when it comes to overtaking. And, since they necessarily have a speed constraint, they are best confined to roads where they do not land up leading 'funeral processions'.
 

Muralidhar Rao
ss87's picture

Generally though Jantis are a

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Generally though Jantis are a pain tehy are quite suited for peak hour. There is a huge amount of space to stand in the bus and it is not ucomfortable even if crowded.

Vasanth's picture

Continuous run will be beneficial

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We already have many disconnected versions in the form of 500A's, Ds, Ks, Ws, Ts etc.. Addition of Big Circle in the same discontinued format will be nothing but old wine in new bottle, or old bus in new painting. It should value add something compared to other services.

What we want to see is assured frequency between morning 6 to night 10 and continued night service.

The discontinuity will cause lots of problems , especially for the aged, school going children to changeover the bus in messy junctions such as Banashankari, Silkboard and KR Puram. It is very insecured with huge vehicles on the ORR. It may lead to fatalities. I never take such discontinued buses which is so cumbersome to changeover. Also waits for the bus will increase. Wait at Banashankari, wait at Silkboard, wait at Marathalli , wait at KR Puram to reach the destination.

Silkboard for example, does not have any pedestrain crossing from Western ORR to Eastern ORR.

I request Prof. Ashwin to take a ride on the ORR to feel personally during peak hours and late nights and changeover buses in Banashankari / Silkboard before taking the call.

Regarding the map, I will put another inner corridor shortly.

 

idontspam's picture

Need to see a plan for this

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 The discontinuity will cause lots of problems , especially for the aged, school going children to changeover the bus in messy junctions

This is an important point. I would prefer to see a plan for this before rolling out the new system tather than not try the new system at all. In most places this might mean properly marked signboards indicating the route and changeover information and ped xings. The route itself should just a small part of the whole plan.

idontspam's picture

Trunk routes & Articulated buses

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they are best confined to roads where they do not land up leading 'funeral processions'.

This I agree, but its in our hands. Articulated buses are usually used on trunk routes in most countries and not on feeder routes or inside residential areas. In our city there is no formal distinction between a trunk route and a feeder service. I believe this Big10 and Big circle is the first formal effort to create a trunk service, so the rest of the services point to point or loop services can become feeders to these (and other) trunks

But what I have also noticed in Europe is that if the trunk passes through even 2 lane roads, the janti vahana goes there regardless of the size of the road. So you have to design your trunk along routes which can carry volumes, the vehicle itself may change over time. Today it may be articulated buses tomorrow it may be double articulated or BRT or Light Rail which will run on those routes. So its up to us to either choose the roads or make the roads appropriately.

Vasanth's picture

Volvo or Marcopolo based Jantis

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Main operators like Volvo and Marcopolo has not launched their articulated bus versions in India. It is all custom built and not as per any standards. If these main operators launch their Jantis, it may be good.

Naveen's picture

Light rail - Not on Indian roads

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If the crowd is more than can fit a bendy-bus and a 5 minute frequency it is time for a light rail

Well, to start with Indian streets are probably the most 'de-regulated' & the Laissez-Faire attitude to what happens in traffic lanes is staright out from medievel times.

The battle on the streets between various user types is actually being encouraged by simply widening them & forgetting all else. I think it has actually gotten worse now, & we do not seem to be able to get out of this nightmare.

Street level Light rail, if introduced will be another phenomenon to bear with on the roads & will add a new dimension in the 'minefields' that our streets are (similar to Kolkata trams). Until we fix our roads through space allocation & improved discipline, nothing much will change.

Operation of light rail might not help & become expensive since they will also get 'caught up' in traffic, time & again, leading to reduced passenger volumes. Articulated buses, or double articulated buses may work better.

idontspam's picture

Light rail corridors

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I think we have been through this. If we can dedicate lanes for BRTS we should be able to use that for a light rail also. The only difference being the passenger carrying capacity of the Tram trains are higher than articulated bus. The best part being buses can also ply in the light rail lane till they need to get off into other streets where they can mingle with rest of the traffic. It becomes a dual use corridor.

Vasanth's picture

Big Circle - Full Circle with concerns of empty seats

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Well, Big Circle should run full circle as we debated earlier and also stated the problems of crossing the junctions. Few commented that buses will crowded.

For this we could have buses starting from various points on ORR and ending thereonly after going full round. For example Marathalli to Marathalli, Kengeri to Kengeri, Hebbal to Hebbal, Silkboard to Silkboard. This will solve the problem of crowding. I work near Marathalli, so I would prefer bus starting from Marathalli.

Recently, I got down at Kengeri Railway Station after coming from Mysore. I got a big circle bus running between Hebbal to Kengeri. I could not board since I had to goto BSK III Stg and bus ends at Kengeri.

This is the major problem of the disconnects.

 

Naveen's picture

Have we built BRTS ?

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If we can dedicate lanes for BRTS we should be able to use that for a light rail also. The only difference being the passenger carrying capacity of the Tram trains are higher than articulated bus. The best part being buses can also ply in the light rail lane till they need to get off into other streets where they can mingle with rest of the traffic. It becomes a dual use corridor.

The merits of higher capacity Light rail that shares scarce street space with other road vehicles might make sense in european cities (some american too, such as san jose), since traffic there is highly disciplined & they have money for the more expensive, but comfortable trains on streets.

In sharp contrast here, the streets are full of highly indiciplined traffic, the authorities have all but abandonned BRTS due to street width limitations, are struggling to put up overhead Metro infrastructure, & there are constraints for money too.

In this scenario, the only option on the roads seems to be buses, be they single-unit or articulated, since they can mingle with the rest of the traffic & are not confined to rigid guides or tracks, & can get out any possible way from a traffic jam in much the same way as other road vehicles.

Hence, I maintain that Light rail might not work, unless of course traffic is tamed to follow rules & give way to trains, if ever such is possible.

idontspam's picture

Not tried yet

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the authorities have all but abandonned BRTS

3 Cities in India have BRTS. Delhi, Pune & Ahemdabad. The Ahemdabad one is supposedly a better model. We can try BRTS on ORR between Hebbal & Silkboard jns. This stretch is an ideal candidate.It connects Big Circle buses on NH7 North and South and NH4/Whitefield in between.

A dedicated track with physical seperation along the median is required. This can be upgraded later to run tram trains. There will be no interference and discipline issues because of physical seperation. Signal will get extra phases for BRTS corridor. Ideally we should try this on PPP basis (3rd party concessionaire should BOOT)

Vasanth's picture

What happens when flyovers or underpasses are to be constructed

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Our planners suddenly plan for flyovers and underpasses and divert the traffic not even without improving diverted roads. Diversion on ORR for Agara and Bellandur Flyover is clear example. Now comes another HSR Layout flyover which has delayed my office commute by 20 minutes.

Along with that we have regular 'Mori' or drainage work or electricity or telephone work who will digg the roads. How light rail can take up these diversions. Is there any example where these kind of scenario is present.

idontspam's picture

 How light rail can take up

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 How light rail can take up these diversions

How are we now planning works around railway lines in the city that already exist? How will we do works around metro rail in tunnels and on pillars? Once permenant structures come up BBMP/BWSSB/Bescom will have to adopt more mature processes to manage the utilities around those. We cant let infrastructure be hostage to current immaturity in procedures, we will never grow that way. We will have to educate and take them along. This kind of infrastructure will make that non negotiable. 

This is like going to sub saharan Africa and dumbing down the infrastructure needs because they havent seen electricity and dont know how to use it.

Naveen's picture

BRT may never happen unless...

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We can try BRTS on ORR between Hebbal & Silkboard jns. This stretch is an ideal candidate.It connects Big Circle buses on NH7 North and South and NH4/Whitefield in between

There has been talk about making ORR between Hebbal & Silkboard Jn (eastern crescent) a freeway without signals, & the first set of underpasses or jump-overs are already under construction at Hennur rd cross, Iblur, Agara & at HSR.

If signals are done away with at the remaining intersections (viz. Thanisandra rd cross, Hormavu rd cross, Kodbisanhalli & Bellandur rd cross), the case for BRT or LRT on this stretch becomes weak & BRT might not be necessary here.

I believe BRT is necessary where there is much more likelihood for buses to get delayed frequently due to intersections & traffic pile-ups, typically on streets within ORR. Further, the demand for quick travel is also higher in areas within ORR.


Is there any example where these kind of scenario is present

The only example I can think of is Kolkata where trams are inefficient since they do not have right of way. It was for this reason that trams had disappeared in most parts of the world, but reappeared in europe as Light rail since right of ways could be made possible with better traffic discipline there (Mumbai & Delhi also had trams earlier).


We will have to educate and take them along. This kind of infrastructure will make that non negotiable. This is like going to sub saharan Africa and dumbing down the infrastructure needs because they havent seen electricity and dont know how to use it

Quite correct. We need to move ahead with the times & learn & gain expertise to use & maintain newer systems. However, we seem to be stuck in the same mould as a hundred years ago even as motorization levels have increased alarmingly. The way China has been addressing these issues is quite admirable - they really have taken it head on & whole landscapes have changed in a matter of years.

idontspam's picture

BRT on ORR

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I believe BRT is necessary where there is much more likelihood for buses to get delayed frequently due to intersections & traffic pile-ups, typically on streets within ORR. Further, the demand for quick travel is also higher in areas within ORR.

This point needs to be looked at with growth projections along this corridor and extending into Devanahalli & Tumkur road beyond 2015. ORR is a corridor which is going to take much more traffic than the current 6 lanes can take. The signal free is necessary to move efficiently whatever traffic is already on it but not if it goes beyond capacity. How do you ensure further growth will not increase the congestion along this stretch. How long did a 4 lane Hosur road last? A look at congestion in signal free freeways of California shows us how we will be in 2020. Daily commute has to move to mass transit like trains especially in populated countries like ours. If this means sacrificing a lane on ORR for dedicated PT, then so be it.

Ideally all trunk (big 12 & Big circle) routes should be priority at least

Naveen's picture

PT /BRT must help city commuters

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Whilst priority for PT is desirable wherever possible, & on ORR, it might also be an idea to provide physically separated lanes for buses, the actual commuter needs for public transport appear to be getting more & more diluted in our planning.

An example is Pune, which is said to have BRT, but BRT there is on a few wide roads where traffic (including buses) moved fast anyways. Thus, introduction of BRT in Pune does not seem to have brought in very many benefits & hasn't added much value to public transport - those who commuted on private wheels still continue to do the same. Delhi BRT is somewhat better, but planning at intersections had gone haywire, & this is being amended now. Ahmedabad has gone a few steps ahead by investing a lot more effort & money to ensure that the right corridors & infrastructure are chosen, & might be the example to learn from.

Since PRR /NICE roads are expected to remove truck traffic largely from ORR, it is unlikely that ORR will get saturated very soon, like Hosur rd did. The need of the hour for bangalore has been to have fast bus services across the city & to feed the upcoming metro rather than only along it's periphery /ORR, where traffic is expected to move fast anyway, after removal of all signal-obstacles. I think planners must accord higher priority to what is more urgent & pressing first.

Vasanth's picture

Inner Circle A Thought

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This is my thought on the inner circle, there is some problem with the map near Jayamahal and Mekhri Circle which I did some mistake while drawing lines..Sorry for that, I will post a corrected one shortly.

Route is like this - Mekhri Circle - RT Nagar - Indiranagar - Domlur - Koramangala - Forum - Diary Circle - Siddapura Road - Lalbagh West Gate - Ashrama - Hanumanthnagar - Bank Colony - Outer Ring Road - Nayandahalli - Vijaynagar - Navarang - Harischandra Ghat - KC General Hospital - Malleshwaram - IISC -Mekhri Circle.

Someone near RT Nagar can suggest better route between Mekhri Circle and Indiranagar.

Javascript is required to view this map.

Vasanth's picture

No updates on Big Circle!

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Recent update on addition of 60 new buses to big circle is not seeing the light yet. No updates from anyone so far. These are the hot things that can be introduced  as part of Bus Day Promotion.

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