'GET LOST' - No more

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BusPublic Transport

I want to start a project where i am able to implement bus route maps in the form of glowing ( for night) signages which are clear, visible, depicting 'where you are' and the nearby bus routes from the stop to main stops in bangalore. The purpose it to help bus commuters locate themselves and commute with comfort without worrying about how to reach their destination, specially for outstation people, foreigners and non-kannada speaking people.

My idea is to have the map in English and Kannada for ease of use by everyone in the city.

This will also be a step towards a better planed bangalore city.

Request you to post ideas as to how the map should be, how much would one cost, how many such bus stops are in bangalore ? How to get sponsors to fund my project etc.

Comments

Workable Idea

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Few months back I had proposed to some researchers and decision makers (not on praja), but was given a cold shoulder. Realised that I was selling the idea to those who hate public transport.

This idea / concept  is workable. Not only a map in each bus stop, we can also include timings of those buses that come to the stop, assuming that buses maintain timings to soem extent. This system of maps and timings are there in bus stops in Canada.

I have more ideas on this concept. I would suggest talking to DULT as a beginning. We can start as a pilot in a major bus stop.  I am available for any meetings / presentations / writing proposal.

Bus stop design and 'GET LOST' - No more

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The subject matter of this blog is similar to what is being discussed under the head Bus Stop design.   

The matters relating to common subject should be discussed under one blog instead of too many separate blogs.  What matters is what we achieve and how best we use our valuable discussions in the process of achieving.   The purpose of deliberation is for analysing the viability of the project before proposing it and for the projects which are already sanctioned/approved a meaningful debate over the project before implementation will enhance utility value of the project.

Keep this seprate

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My suggestion would be to keep this seperate as this thread may get submerged in the numerous posts under bus stop design.

Thanks and next steps

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Thanks Mahesh and Raja Rao for your comments, and yes i agree with Mahesh to keep it separate coz its a small project on its own which is indeed part of the larger project bus stop design but to accomplish it we need to focus only on one project at a time.

Yes Mahesh, bus timings is also a thought which was in my mind and as you rightly said it can be made part of the display.

Ok i was thinking of meeting the transport minister, but as you said meeting DULT is a good idea too.Yes i would definitely require support and guidance as this is the first time i am embarking on such a project.

Let me know when and where can we meet to take it forward, you could mail me at ritu_s_w@yahoo.com.

 

 

DULT is already aware that

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DULT is already aware that bus stops need timetables & route information. I recommend reaching out to BMTC to see if they can provide such information & how you plan to keep it updated. It hinges heavily on them providing you accurate data.

Once you have a handle on how much data you have and figured out a way to keep it updated, one can easily approach either BBMP or DULT to make it operational. 

DULT or BMTC

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Yes, that is true that the data on how many bus stops, price per stop etc would be definitely required from BMTC and that's in my agenda. Well one meeting to kickstart would help, we can meet up once and decide how to proceed.

 

Ritu, Mahesh, Raja Rao - create a project?

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We can get a separate project created (like Bus Day, Namma Railu etc) to collect all posts, files, and track meetings etc. Ritu or Mahesh could be marked as the owner of the "project". what say?

This will help in other concerns as well

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Great, This will help in our other concerns as well like -

(1) We see 2 or more 500C many times on ORR on a signal, arriving at the same point within 5 minutes and no 500C for half an hour or smething like that.

(2) How much buffer is there for a trip and why drivers are driving rashly? Or is it really the schedule not so logically and logistically planned?

With this information, we can get back to BMTC with a few suggestions which would be helpful to commuters, bus-drivers, BMTC, BTP and the potential public-transport users.

Deepak

I request you to go through

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I request you to go through my comment on this blog once again.  I have only commented that GET LOST – NO MORE and the BUS STOP DESIGN Blogs are covering the same topics and it would be better if both the Blogs are clubbed to achieve better results.  

Thank you for your invitation to join one of your projects.  I have not met any of you and I wish to meet some of you. I had several opportunities to meet you all but I missed them all.   My experience with Praja is limited.   However, I am available to Praja at anytime.  

Lets meet Monday 27Th June 2011

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Hi all,

Thanks for all the suggestions and response, it has boosted my confidence in taking this project further and as rightly said by Deepak and Raja Rao we may address other concerns as well.

Me and Mahesh are planning a meeting Monday somewhere close to MG Road.

let us all meet, how about Cubbon park Monday 27th June 2011 at 5 pm?

Let me know. Thanks

Hi - revisit - Bus Route maps at all bus stops

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hi all,

Please help me in identifying the authorities to meet regarding my project on route map installation and any idea on who designs such maps, i heard of mapunity team, any more suggestions.

We couldnt meet on 27th as noone confirmed, i would request to please spare some time for this so that we can take it forward.

mahesh are you available? what about others, please join it and lets together make it progress.

Thanks

Route Maps

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Actually the vajra map was designed by some Praja members for BMTC its available at the links below. You can also get it from BMTC.

Click here for feeder map

Click here for other route maps, 

Proposal is with the Govt.

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I checked around and it appears that there is already a proposal with the government regarding this. Timings are not included becuase its too premature to have it as buses have their own timings. 

Implementing this is a contentious issue. So I am not sure where Praja will fit in.

Route Maps

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Please tell me whom do you meet and check, cos i want to take it forward and i thought Praja would be my first progressive step towards that, whereas i get to feel that since there is already a proposal with government , Praja doesn't fit it, why is it so?

Its our job to pursue and get things done, what we need is just each other's support and we as citizens can move mountains, otherwise things won't happen, it may happen after many months, but that's the sole issue, there will be many such projects.

miracles can happen!

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@ Ritu  -  Praja made a very sincere attempt at engaging with BMTC. In fact, the "bus day" was conceived by Praja. However, given BMTC's lackadaisical approach, as detailed here, the team members eventually got disenchanted, and most seem to have more or less given up on BMTC as incorrigible. Having dealt with BMTC more closely even earlier, as the Co-Chairman of its Commuter Comfort Task Force, I was skeptical of any change anybody will be able to bring about, and formulated my own approach as detailed here. I expect it to gather momentum sooner now with the impending inevitability of restrictions having to be imposed on usage of personal vehicles.

But, of course, let me not dissuade you. Miracles do happen, and perhaps you are the one with the required magic touch.

Muralidhar Rao

I am here Ritu & Mahesh

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Sorry for vanishing for a bit, BSNL cut me off from Internet, that limited my Praja website time a lot.

In the comment above, Murali isn't entirely right in saying that "team members eventually got disenchanted". Got busy will be more like it. BMTC did do Bus Day with all the seriousness, that should be proof enough that if we approach them in organized and regular way, things have a chance of happening. BMTC's privatization may or may not be good, but I don't prefer or advise sitting on the sidelines and not doing anything at all till serious things happen on that front.

Since Mahesh has found out that something is already in the works, why don't we either go and join that effort, or just becume "auditors" for the parallel effort so that at least that does happen.

If two of you are game, let me try organize a new series of BMTC - Praja meetings to resume the momentum we haver lost (mainly due to that CM stunt on that Bus Day, it slowed down a lot of Buses on many routes).

Other option would be to covert the project from signage / bus stops to a more generic "advocacy + pressure" exercise to get BMTC to get its act right on "publishing information" in general. Website, Bus schedule booklets, SMS etc etc. Lets just go pressure for all of this, and offer help if they need any. Going with a constructive approach gives you a better chance at getting things done. Worth a shot.

Advocate for a system in place at BMTC!

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SB, Ritu, Mahesh,

Your attempt to elevate ordinary public's plight in getting bus info is laudable. However I have a humble suggestion to make. Push BMTC to have those systems in place at BMTC itself rather than private individuals like you to invest time and effort to run a parallel system/tool. Reason being, even if Praja come up with the front end/User Experience, it still needs data inputs.

There are only 2 choices here. One, we build data inventory ourselves from existing data points available through different entities. that feeds into building maps, routes etc. Other option is BMTC itself putting a robust system which always carries the latest data and information on bus routes, timings, frequencies, additions, deletions etc.? if you carefully examine the 2 choices, I am sure the later one would be the clear choices for reasons:

1. Every tool/application can based of single data inputs

2. Data gets updated as BMTC makes updates to existing routes, deletes existing routes, adds new routes etc.

3. Such a database would be of immense value to BMTC itself in planning, analysis and reporting.

4. BMTC itself can host apps/tools that would harness this data and provide commuters with route building, route search, and all other travel related amenities.

You still can build tools and apps to run using system that is going to be in place at BMTC and probably host it on BMTC site or any other site. Extend those apps to cell phones and hand held devices. There is no dearth of such applications.

When we had last checked with BMTC in Feb/March 2010, unfortunately they didn't had any system from which they can feed bus route data for commuter amenities. Therefore, depending upon your choice and priority, you may want to look into this aspect as well.

-Syed

 

BMTC Map Integrated with Pedestrain Map will also help

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London has got pedestrain maps in key places with walking distance circles like 5 minute walk circle and 15 minute walk circle. NYC after seeing London is implementing the same : http://thecityfix.com/blog/wayfinding-maps-for-urban-navigators/

If we could integrate BMTC map with this in key areas, Metro stations, it would be very helpful especially for the visitors.

Yes it is true.  Such

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Yes it is true.  Such displays are found in exclusive walking paths around Central London. Most of the walking paths are through the open space and gardens.  In some walking paths cyclist are also permitted along with the pedestrian.

Proposal is with BMTC

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I came to know that the proposal is with the BMTC. Please remember that implementing is a different issue as compared to research and design. How Praja will work with BMTC to implement this even on a pilot scale is the issue. 

We can't implement, but can still do a project

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Mahesh, we are not setup to implement, I wouldn't want to implement also, our job should be to expect and ask why such basics are not in place. BMTC certainly has the money to get things implemented. What we can help is with

  • show some samples if we have bright ideas on how to do this.
  • or, if they are planning to implement, just ask after it, have them share what they are planning to do, put some pressure to get it expedited

Other thing is, based on our experience, BMTC doesn't have good internal systems to readily give you route data etc (information). If they could fix that root cause (of why website doesn't have enough and accurate information), then we can get the data from them on regular basis, and find some sponsors to do our version of maps. But this is a bit far fetched right now, unless BMTC is on to some internal IT improvements work as well. My information is as from late last year.

Where there is a will....

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I agree with above comments, we need to hear from them and know what their bottlenecks are.Whether we are successful or we fail is secondary, if we have done what is required to get it going and BMTC reverts with an answer ( whether yes or no) is enough at this point to just plan for what next.

Can we fix a meeting with the BMTC guys, anyone can help? please revert?

ritu

absolutely

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That is it, you said it right. whether we will fail or success is secondary. I will work on a meeting with BMTC, could take 2-3 weeks max.

Meanwhile, let us meet ourselves, or talk on the site to build a crisp list (what we want, how we want to help, with examples) to take to them in that meeting. Can't do such talk on this post, time to create a separate project area now?

Yes, i am ready

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Let me know how i can help.Yes let us meet, i have been trying to fix a meeting from sometime now but to vain..i get no response.

Can we fix up a meeting asap, you suggest a date/time and i am available next week.

What time etc suits you all?send me ur phone no at ritu_s_w@yahoo.com

Me and dvsquare

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Me and dvsquare too planning to meet BMTC next week.

a) Regarding a new route request over Hosur Road Elevated way - dvsquare

b) Implementation of Facebook for BMTC in line with BTP - bheema

Probably we can combine all points. I would be interested to join any Sats/Sundays except tomorrow.

" My mantra to public bodies=> Enable->Educate->Enforce. Where does  DDC  fit?"

I will join

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Hi,


let me know whenever you are planning to meet BMTC and who in BMTC?

I would come and we can discuss this project as well. Thanks so much will await for your response.

Ritu

perhaps, there's hope

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@ Ritu S

The following is the text of a letter addressed to Mr K R Srinivasa, IAS, Managing Director, BMTC by Mr N Mukund, member CAF, on the 29th June

Dear Sir

Greetings and it was nice meeting you at your office. Though BMTC is doing its best  for improving its services, please find the issues/observations   which i thought of sharing with you .It is not complaint or criticism ,our intention is mutual benefit

1) General Lack of Punctuality  with  cases of unreliable services ,hardly bus timings are maintained .Drivers are forced to follow the old time sheets in spite of the present traffic conditions and hence  many drivers indulge in rash driving
2) Services during early mornings, late evenings & off-peak hours are too few, erratic & unreliable. There are no school bus services(except contract buses) hence school children especially middle and lower middle class  should wait for long hours and commute with general public . Similarly many office goers would be waiting for buses for hours between 6 pm to 7-30 pm at places viz -MG Road, BBMP offices etc
3) Buses follow non-regular route/s.; no actions have been taken in spite of complaints. Some buses do not stop at designated stops

4) Too many routes & route nos. that confuse users. Alternative routes can be explored with consultation of public and traffic police
5) Bunching up of buses – at a time many arrive & after that, there are no buses over long periods. especially on Sundays and holidays
6) TTMCs already in operation or those that are being built are at locations where BMTC has “land available”, & is not based on commuter needs.
7) Lack of information to commuters about when a bus will arrive (no GPS sets installed on buses to facilitate scroll boards at bus stations that announce arrival times, tracking, etc.).
8) Senior BMTC officials (except ticket inspectors) hardly travel in buses –except on Bus days hence they do not understand commuter’s problem in depth
9) Insufficient publicity & information on services, routes & other BMTC facilities, including On-line information.
10) Some destinations have too few Volvo services, whilst others appear to have too many, no proper survey is done.  Before a route is introduced and there is no public consultation being held as there are no Commuter Forums in each Depot

11) Rough Behaviors - Many bus drivers & conductors are behaving in so rough way as if we are traveling free of cost
12) BMTC runs many conductors less, single door buses, where it is difficult for passengers especially for ladies to enter and exit .The driver would be driving in one hand and issuing tickets in other hand which will lead to accidents

Regds, N. Mukund

 

Reply from CTM Operations, BMTC

BMTC appreciates your concern about the matters related to its operations & thanks for your valuable suggestions.   The point wise reply  &  the action taken on the issues raised by your good self is as  follows.

1) The scheduling of services is being done very scientifically and the frequency is distributed based on the actual requirements. Due to severe traffic congestion, there may be variations in timings of the operations. BMTC is deploying Traffic controllers at high potential traffic   origin & destination control points to monitor the timings & regular operation of the schedules. BMTC has more than 700 traffic supervisory staffs to monitor the operations physically, besides monitoring by Sarathi Patrol Squads. In the last 2 years, we have revised the timings of 3500 schedules reducing the number of trips based on the actual requirements.

2) The distributions of trips are reduced in the nonpeak hour particularly in the early morning. Sufficient care has been taken to cater the needs of commuters particularly during the late hours. Both the bus stops mentioned are highly density corridors & we have deployed sarathi Road Patrol squads to monitor the operations.


3) BMTC operates 6000 buses with around 80000 trips all over the City. We have a system of monitoring the operations through our 30 bus stations 60 control Points & 10 TTMCs which all are manned by Traffic Supervisory Staff & Traffic Controllers. Apart from this BMTC has recently introduced 3-tier system bifurcating the area into 5 divisions to have close monitoring of operations through the Divisional Officers. We have also 11 sarathi squads to monitor the operation besides proper vehicle parking, discipline the crew, monitor the route deviations etc.

4) Bangalore City unlike the other cities has developed radially. We have villages & suburban towns all around the City who expects identical buses to their places. These buses are only concentrated on 12 Big-10 Routes which are going in & out from the city to different places. Though we have more Route Numbers numerically we have around 350 major route numbers. BMTC is making efforts to bring in destination-oriented buses through big-10 Services on 12 radial routes supported by Big Circle & Feeder Services.

5) Due to severe traffic congestion, we observe bunching.


6&7) BMTC is making several attempts to improve the PIS by upgrading the Bus Stations, providing information at Bus Shelters , BMTC in coordination with BBMP (which owns the Bus Shelters) is embarking on an ambitious scheme under which all the bus stops will have a basic directional map and service information specific to that bus stop. This is being taken up on a phased manner in view of its mammoth nature.

8) BMTC has already taken steps to deploy their field level officers on all important corridors & junctions to observe and monitor the operations.

9) Regarding Deployment of Volvo Services since they are high-end vehicles profitability and the load factor are the only criteria to operate such services.

10) BMTC is having “ BMTC Commuters Advisory & facilitation Committee “ comprising the representatives from the management of BMTC & representatives from the public& BMTC conducts meetings once in two months  and also have interactions  with the local residents associations individually and also along with local area representatives, MLAs, Corporators etc.


11) Having realized the importance of courteous behaviour  on the part of BMTC’s staff who come in direct contact with commuters on a daily basis viz the conductors, drivers etc BMTC has instituted an in house system that conducts reorientation courses to the serving one.  The aim is to inculcate commuter friendly attitude and polished, courteous behaviour in them.

12) Regarding Conductor less services, out of 5891 schedules BMTC is operating a very few of (only 200) Chartered Service schedules with Janapriyavahini Vehicles. These services are operated with exclusive trips to factories & schools. Only a few trips out of these services are operated on the routes during the nonpeak hour.

BMTC has started the feeder service operations on 19  routes with 70 buses w.e.f 26/06/2011 to improve the last mile connectivity in the outlying areas of Bangalore city. BMTC  has drawn an action plan for operating feeder service to Bangalore metro.


The points to be noted are:

  • There is a new MD. Our 'knight in shining armour' :))), aka SB, had kind of given up on the earlier MD, and stated that once a new MD takes charge, he may want to revive his efforts at rejuvenating BMTC. So, perhaps the time has come.
  • As compared to the normal practice of responding with standard responses like "letter received - matter will be looked into", the CTM has bothered to give a detailed response. May be there's already an air of change there.


All the very best. I'll however choose to continue with my campaign, since, first and foremost, I believe monopolies are inconsistent with today's world.
 

Muralidhar Rao

Intrestingly in all of those

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Intrestingly in all of those stats ZERO information or committment to PUBLISHING & making available time tables and/or frequency to commuters via ANY medium they deem possible.

Directional maps & route information is a good start though, maybe the team can ask for timelines, implementation plan & the specifics of what is being planned. 

When are we meeting?

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Lets plan a meet and and come up with an action plan for ourselves.

The few of us who want to and are willing to stand for the cause and who knows this may trigger many other half asleep projects at BMTC to take off too, all it requires is a push from the public and i am sure these are all  ailing projects waiting for a small trigger to get them through .

I am new to Praja hence would seek your help in initiating a meeting and set a time aside for the same this week so that we don't delay having a discussion.

Thanks..ritu

BMTC Meeting

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I am interested to join.

K.V.Pathy

I am sorry I am unavailable

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I am sorry I am unavailable for the meeting. I shall positively keep in touch with you during mid August.

Meeting at Total mall - Old airport Road

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hi all,

Let me know who all can join, i suppose silkboard, me and KV Pathy can join, how about anyone else?

I am proposing to meet at Total Mall, Old airport road at 12.15 pm on Friday ie. 15th July 2011.

pls confirm who all can make it?

Thanks a lot in advance

ritu

Can not join, but

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on Friday. But I am ok to meet if it is Saturday around 12noon, as its weekly off. Also I would propose meeting venue to be in Shanthinagar BMTC itself. There is enough space/longue  outside BMTC offices in first floor. Kindly send a message to dvsquare also, coz he has points to discuss too. If its skype meeting we could do it during Friday night around 9pm. too.

" My mantra to public bodies=> Enable->Educate->Enforce. Where does  DDC  fit?"

I will join to meet BMTC officials

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I will be joining Praja Team, saturday to meet with BMTC officials at BMTC, shanthi nagar.

If we have to meet before the actual meet with officials, we can meet either friday evening at some convenient place to all, OR on saturday itself before actual meet with BMTC, like 10:00 AM kind of.

Also, please try to keep BMTC officials meet around noon, so that we are done by 3:30 PM, as I have some other commitment at 4:00 PM.

I will be taking 2 issues specifically to BMTC officials -

(1) About the new proposed route from silkboard to electronics city via elevated hosur road flyover.

(2) Also, taking the issue of irregularity of bmtc drivers on the bangalore roads like not stopping on bus-stops, not stopping at bus-bays, instead suddenly braking at signals, standing in the middle lane at bus-stops, there by jamming the whole traffic behind them, which totally defeits the purpose of public transport kind of. I will not be complaining them about it, I will be just presenting them with a couple of photo printouts of same irregularity and ask them for their comment, then suggestion.

Deepak

@ Deepak.If you deem it fit,

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@ Deepak.

If you deem it fit, you may add my experiences also in your issues on the irregularities of BMTC drivers and conductors. These are the facts but I have no records to prove.

  1. I boarded the bus, during early morning hours, going to K R Puram from Majestic Bus Terminal via Kasturi Nagar and Ramamurthy Nagar.   Both the driver and conductor were not in favour of going via Kasturinagar for their own reasons. I purchased tickets and sat in the bus and insisted them to drop me at Kasturinagar.  In the mean time another person also got in to the bus and purchased a ticket up to Tin Factory.  Since I threatened to lodge a complaint if they do not drop me at Kasturi Nagar Bus Stop, they dropped me at the bus stop, taking a roundabout route. Thereafter, instead of proceeding towards Ramamurthy Nagar they diverted the route via Tin Factory to K R Puram.

 

  1. My second experience was with driver and conductor from Shivaji Nagar Terminus during late night hours. (may be their last trip)  Both the driver and the conductor were very young and the destination was Sadananda Nagar.   Both of them refuse to go beyond NGEF Factory and decided to return to Shivaji Nagar from that bus stop itself.   They were not bothered about the complaints etc.     

     

@RV

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@ RV Sir,

My second issue about irregularity about bus-drivers, I am not going to complain about anything in general, I am just going to say them or show them what is happening, and leave it to them if its correct or incorrect. Because, I think complaining to BMTC or any govt agencies doesn't help, they won't accept.

So, I am thinking of just going to them with a few pics of those indiscipline on the bangalore roads, and let them say the rest.

For your experiences, going by the same thought, I can just keep the same comment as it is in front of them and let them take it in whatever way they can. Also, it would have been added weight if you had noted down the bus-numbers and/or driver-conductor's numbers.

Deepak

@ Deepak, Thank you for

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@ Deepak,

Thank you for acknowledging.  Yes, it was my mistake. I have not recorded the numbers.  I am not in town to join you all.

BMTC meeting

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I will join on Saturday, 16th

Who is the BMTC official we are meeting?

K.V.Pathy

@Bheema and @Ritu

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Bheema and Ritu,

Hey, did we already got a meeting slot with BMTC folks on saturday?

Whom are we meeting ? and when? and how long they have given us the time-slot?

Deepak

I am on it

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I am trying to arrange for the meeting, offline. Will update you as I progress. 

" My mantra to public bodies=> Enable->Educate->Enforce. Where does  DDC  fit?"

Confirmed: 12 Noon Saturday at BMTC

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@Deepak, Raja Rao, Ritu. 

Meeting confirmed with BMTC contact at Shanthinagar. Is someone can bring laptop too, it would be great, I will try.

 

" My mantra to public bodies=> Enable->Educate->Enforce. Where does  DDC  fit?"

I am trying too

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I had confirmed Friday noon @ total mall, and I had confirmed. Is that on? I am out this weekend, so won't be able to join.

Also, I too am trying to fix up a meeting with BMTC. Bheema - if you manage one too, great. AS long as one of us can manage to arrange one :)

I am available on Saturday

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Count me in for Saturday meeting with BMTC.  Friday I am busy.  If they have some sort of a board where we can write, would be great.

I am available Friday and Saturday

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Count me in for Friday meeting as well as Saturday meeting.

Whoever is not able to come, can let one of us know their points , we can take those forward.

Thanks a lot for getting this done, really appreciate the efforts and i am in it for whatever i can contribute.

ritu

Friday noon is difficult for me, wil be there on saturday noon

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Friday afternon is difficult for me, but I can make it work in evening after 6-7.

I will be there on saturday 12:00 as fixed by Bheema with BMTC.

I am creating a presentation consisting 2 issues -

(1) introduction of point-2-point service using toll roads

(2) Pictures/desc showing irregularities of the bus-drivers on the bangalore roads.

Deepak

More issues?

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Hi All,

Looks like we have couple of issues to be discussed with BMTC. I hope more than one individual comes to the meeting representing BMTC as different people deal with different issues.

Mahesh

Yes, we have couple of

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Yes, we have couple of issues,

I have mentioned in previous comment on the issues I will be discussing.

Bheema is going to talk about FB page etc.

Ritu is going to take the Route Display Boards issue.

I would like to request everybody, that we should remain inline with whatever issues we have discussed. If there are other issues as well, please try to take one by one, so that we just don't make this meeting as complaint-box instead of suggestion-review-discuss meeting.

 

Deepak

BMTC meeting

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I would like to raise the following issues if possible-

1. Praja should be included in the periodical meetings they are holding with 'Grahak'.

2. They should clarify if they are willing to take the responsibility for providing Public Transport Bus services (including Mini buses, last mile connectivity etc) from anywhere to anywhere within the greater Bangalore area falling within their jurisdiction.

If not, they should clearly indicate to the Govenment so that alternative operators can be deployed.

3. Commuter Forums should be formed in each BMTC Division and discussions should be conducted at least once in two months. This should be a regular on-going process.

 

K.V.Pathy

Meeting on Saturday

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I agree that this should be more of a suggestion-review-discuss meeting. I have two more suggestions for BMTC based on my past experience. Let me see if I can write something on them before the meeting.

Meeting tomorrow at 12 pm - details of the venue

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Hi, Just a suggestion, lets keep it focussed to few issues , may be top 5-6 items, otherwise nothing would be accomplished, when people see few items, they want to take them up, we can always go again and meet them later for other issues, i am not bringing any presentation/documents, i would just propose my project and hear them out, any suggestions/advices,please do tell me .

Bheema pls give exact location of the venue, is it BMTC office in Shantinagar, any landmarks?

thanks

Ritu

Meeting <postponed> for 4pm

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I just got last minute update from BMTC official that they have last minute trouble to make it. So they proposed 4pm instead. 

Kindly pass on the message to everyone invovled.  

" My mantra to public bodies=> Enable->Educate->Enforce. Where does  DDC  fit?"

BMTC 4-00 pm meeting

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I will join.

I feel we may meet an hour earler (3-00 pm) for internal discussion.

Pl. confirm by phone.

K.V.Pathy

(93421 79182)

Yes

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Me and Deepak coming at 3pm itself

" My mantra to public bodies=> Enable->Educate->Enforce. Where does  DDC  fit?"

Cant attend at 4.00 pm

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I cant attend the mtg at 4 pm as I am already committed for an appointment. Keep us posted how the mtg went. The idea proposed by Ritu is doable. It has been done elsewhere and can be taken a step further. We can have a prototype done as a first shot.  

Please update

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Can someone please update on the meeting for last saturday?

sorry

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Here we go. i just wanted to show the MOM to all participants before posting here.

A) On Facebook page for BMTC - Bheema

BMTC expressed that BMTC officials who are in responsible positions are not email savy and internet freindly like that of BESCOM for example. Additionally  has concerns about expected volume of comments/suggestions in proposed facebook. Further, thinks facebook page usually has unstructured data, so it will be difficult to categorize and summarize into actionable items. However agrees to propose a "subscription" page to existing BMTC website so that users shall get updates for specified interests

B) On creating bus info boards - Ritu

BMTC agrees to start with the project. So Praja needs to workout more details and present to BMTC

C) On advise to run Non-stop services - Deepak

Bmtc has taken this point well. 

D) On including Pathy sir in Grahak meeting. - Pathy sir

BMTC would invite Pathy sir for next meeting w/o fail. Pathy sir would represent as individual but also will bring Praja opinions/suggestions in meetings.

E) On last mile connectivity - Pathy sir

Pathy sir highlighted the importance /issues/advantages/sufferings related to this issues. BMTC has suggested to bring this point to notice of new boss.

Action Items:

a) Bheema : To send SMS format text : Done

b) Ritu : To identify most important bus stops to display boards to send to BMTC

c) BMTC : To setup meeting with new head and send invites.

" My mantra to public bodies=> Enable->Educate->Enforce. Where does  DDC  fit?"

Congrats to Praja team for

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Congrats to Praja team for getting the invitation to Mr. K.V.Pathy for BMTC Grahak meeting.

BMTC 'Grahak' meeting

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"D) On including Pathy sir in Grahak meeting."

In facI I got myself invited by CTMO (Mr. Prabu Das) for the scheduled meeting on 20th July 3-30 pm.

I reached well in time (cancelling my other engagements) and was even given a ride from the CTMO's office to the MD's office Board room and asked to sit.

I introduced myself to Mr. Prabu Das. Some other members, who knew me from 'Task Force' days also came in.

But before the meeting started, I was told by Mr. Prabu Das that due to procedural reasons I could not be allowed into the meeting.

I even met the new MD who too repeated the same argument and said I can meet him after the meeting.

I did not feel like waiting as it was not known how long the meeting will go on.

I feel a few of us from praja can ask for a meeting with MD and go prepared.

K.V.Pathy

 

disappointing

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I am surprised why they should have excluded Mr Pathy on some vague technical grounds - it's not as if it's some IB meeting going into some security issues. I am disappointed that the new MD too endorsed that view.

Either way, I didn't have much of an opinion about that set up - check this. Doesn't look like they have changed much over the years. Hope I am wrong.

Muralidhar Rao

Grahak Meeting but without the Grahak?

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So much for the customer care and PR.

This really shows how the gov agencies are living in bullock cart era when the world around is enjoying the fruits of up gradation of technology and business engagements.

There is one of the profound saying of Mahatma Gandhi about the customer:

"...A customer is the most important visitor on our premises, he is not dependent on us. We are dependent on him. He is not an interruption in our work. He is the purpose of it. He is not an outsider in our business. He is part of it. We are not doing him a favor by serving him. He is doing us a favor by giving us an opportunity to do so..."

BMTC, BESCOM and all other govt agencies including Railways, AI now has a given a new spin to Gandhiji's quote, which is:

"..A customer is most unwanted on our premises.

He is dependent on us, but we are not dependent on him.

He is an interruption in our work (No work).

We are the purpose for him.

He is an outsider, can not attend our meetings.

We are doing him a favor by running services (no service at times)..."

 

Pathy Sir,

You must lodge a protest with BMTC Boss, indicating this is not the way to treat a responsible citizen like you after having him called for the meeting.

 

-Syed

It is unfair and would be

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It is unfair and would be better if some more Prajagalu also join Mr. K.V.Pathy to lodge a protest with BMTC Boss.    

Other Suggestions?

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Looks like the meeting was very fruitful. Good work by Praja. Would have attended the meeting at the original set time as I had to go out of station at 4 pm.

Ritu: Please see if you can include a stop in Malleswaram also. There are number of buses that go to suburbs and outskirts of Bengaluru from Malleswaram and I always see number of commuters at any time.

If we have to put forward proposal / suggestion to BMTC, how do we go about it? Can we contact BMTC directly representing Praja? Is Mithila the person to contact? If so her contact info is needed.

@Mahesh

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If you ask me, meeting you should be last step, only after we come up with lots of discussions on issue and our suggestions. So I would encourage to discuss a lot here. I felt my proposal for facebook page creation was immature at this stage, which made me to put this comments :)

" My mantra to public bodies=> Enable->Educate->Enforce. Where does  DDC  fit?"

reg Facebook creation

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Hi Bheema,

Though your suggestion is quite welcome, but what i agreed with Mithila on Facebook page was right now, it would be difficult for them to dedicate few resources just to attend to facebook page and in case they start receiving ( which is obvious) multiple complaints, then it would become difficult to handle and respond to each and every person and it would attract more flak than admiration, more of a handling logistics issue than a benefit of being able to convey important messages to commuters, although if it remains one way ( BMTC ----> janta) and not ( Janta ------> BMTC) then it would be ok i suppose, knowing citizens and specially anything to do with govt, transport, we know how we people react.

 

Its possible

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In facebook, its possible to make it one way. In other words, BMTC can block comments options. So still its doable, both Facebbook and Twitter. You know both of them cost nothing ! And people can get both facebook and twitter updates at their mobiles free of cost. *Only* cost would for BMTC to set up a handling process and add few temp/contracted staff. Suggestion would be to make it extended part of their complaint management system which already existing (Toll Free Number + A form at BMTC website). What is more is that a senior BMTC official can come and comment when a comment/suggestion are related to hign impact or policy matters.

" My mantra to public bodies=> Enable->Educate->Enforce. Where does  DDC  fit?"

System to track bus timings

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Hi all,

Here is a great idea/design by RV College of Engg students. I think they got everything except the map. They can include the map in the panels at the bus stops.  That should cover everthing.

Mahesh

_______________________________________________________

“Wouldn’t it be easier if you could track bus timings through your phone? Aritra Paul, third year student of instrumentation technology at R V College of Engineering, has devised a plan which can make it possible. He says his Public Transport Information System will provide real-time updates of buses plying within the city on mobile phones and public display panels. He says the details will include bus number, destination, current location and expected arrival time.”

Entire article in the link below:

http://www.mybangalore.com/article/1110/engineering-student-in-bangalore-devises-a-system-to-track-bus-timings.html

Showcased my Project to Deputy Mayor

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Hi , I have to share this with all, we had a big event organized on 31st July 2011 at the Indian Agricultural Academy, where we had the Deputy Mayor Mr S harish as one of the chief guests.

I had displayed my bus route maps project as well and i got a lot of support from visitors and one person offered to help in the map design process as well.

I have the Deputy Mayor contacts and he has said that once i give him the proposal, he can take it to the VP of BMTC ( i am not sure if MD and VP are same) so i need your help in doing this.

My idea was to have a signage in the form of a route map, need not have the Bangalore map as such but roughly directions to match the actual location of a stop. Now what i see is some stops like the major ones have more than 20-30 buses plying then how to handle those.

What is better , to meet Mithila and take it forward or should we meet a map designer,start with a regular stop where probably 12-15 buses ply.

Please advice..urgently..thanks to all.

 

Invitation for a guest event to Landmark Forum

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Hi Praja team,

I would like to invite you to an event which is on Wednesday night,

10th Aug 2011 between 7 pm to 9.30 pm at Hotel Nahar Heritage on St Marks Road, Near SBI Head office.

This is a course which i attended and as part of which i picked up my 'Bus route map' project and its an amazing course , which works on our skills, our ability to think beyond and giving us the power to contribute to the community to which we belong.

I would recommend just to be part of this event and attend , it is surely going to add a lot of value as it has done to me.

Regards

Ritu

Again we met at BMTC

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It was long 3 hour meet with BMTC. Lots discussed but focus was on approach for designing a display board system. Idea was to make it upto-date, and a sustainable system in long run. We will see more details here soon.

" My mantra to public bodies=> Enable->Educate->Enforce. Where does  DDC  fit?"

BMTC meeting - 20th Aug 2011- Points discussed

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Hi,

Yes we had a good fruitful discussion on 20th Aug 2011, and here are the top points that we covered.

  1. Mapping to the Geo Codes Data - Which is expected in the coming few weeks.
  2. Categorization of bus stops and the same would be split across phases for eg : Phase 1, Phase 2 and Phase 3.
  3. One suggestion given was - we could look at the stops which are most used and the least used ( which primarily means the stops which host the maximum no of commuters and the stops that have the least or min commuters) - This is open for discussion, we could have more categories to identify the Phase 1 stops.
  4. Physical Designing _ look and feel of the map - We have to do some survey and get few photographs for viewing sake, all are invited to give suggestions here.
  5. Sustaining - Basically Printing, Updating , Pasting, Installation - Finding out the team responsible to do it on a regular and ongoing basis, suggestion was to have a task force within BMTC and then keep it open for volunteers as well.
  6. Pamphlets - Identification division wise - for eg Mahadevpura division/suburb and have some 24 regions to begin with. ( Request Pranav and Bheema to add their points as well if i have missed out any)

Regards

Ritu

mapping resource

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Integra Systems & Services (M R Ravi Kumar) were the people who were doing the mapping for BMTC, during my "Yelli Iddira?" days.  I don't know if they are still associated with BMTC.

Muralidhar Rao

covers it all Ritu

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Thanks Ritu for mentioning the meeting. Sorry for joining over the phone and not in person.

Time to create a project area as we may be getting some data/content from BMTC soon.

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