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Minutes of “Discussions On some interesting Developments in Bangalore” Meet

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 The meeting was attended by 1) Naveen, 2) Pathy, 3) Chari and 4) PSA. It started with an in depth presentation given by Mr. Chari. He started by a demonstration of assembling a simple storage tank unit the basic element of a rain water management system. The storage tank is a simple rectangular box of the size of a normal suit case. It can be assembled easily at site by hand, using the basic building block of a perforated plate. These plates are patented world wide by Atlantis an Australian company. 

This assembled block is the pivot around which any water management project can be planed designed and executed. Mr. Chari presented the whole concept painstakingly clearing many doubts and skeptics of some of us. But once the ice was broken it was easy for Mr. Chari to carry us through. 

I Request others attending the meet to kindly add their valuable comments

 

Comments

psaram42's picture

Some Pictures of the meet

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Naveen's picture

This Is A Likely Solution

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Quite an interesting concept :

The design is such that the installation is "buried" below the ground & covered with a special filter paper, a layer of sand & earth, over which a lawn or plain grass can be grown, if required. When water is poured over the surface (rain, etc), the permeability of all the elements facilitate dissipation of the water into the earth - similar to various forms of rain water harvesting. There will also be some holding volume for filtered water below the ground as the boxes allow for storage, should rains be heavy. This storage volume can be increased by digging deeper & placing two, three or more tiers of such boxes at the time of installation - thus, it can be fitted based on needs & anticipated rain during monsoons, etc..

For RWH, a few large pits are normally dug up deeper & water enters the ground through these pits, but the water may also contain debris, etc. since it is routed through SWDs, which may contain refuse.

In this method, however, the boxes are laid out in long lengths adjacent streets so as to increase the effectiveness & area. Hence, it will be more efficient than conventional RWH methods & does away with the debris problem as water is filtered through the earth /sand & filter-paper. Hence, it will be maintenance-free, unlike normal RWH pits which may need desilting & cleaning periodically.

The hard, permeable boxes with openings all around (similar to crates) are sturdy enough to take heavy loads & can be laid even on street surfaces, if permeable bitumens are used so as to allow water to seep beneath the street surface. In this case, there may be no need to arrange them by the sides on the street.

This apart, there is another product for terraces & rooftops (seen in picture above at the bottom). This allows such storage & facilitates roof top & terrace gardens for lawns.

RKCHARI's picture

Small Correction

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The infiltration and retention crates/tanks are covered by Geo-Textile and not paper filter. The Geo-Textile too is patented and comes with a special application which ensures the whole contraption lasts for minimum 50 years.

Same matrix tank can be used for retaining rainwater harvested by wrapping the geo-textile with a layer of clean river sand and wrapping the entire crate with sand by an impermeable liner. Impermeable liners are made in India, but no one makes it to such thickness (6mm).

To make a successful ecological road one requires to install two rows of infiltration tanks on either end of road (4 rows if it is a double road). additionally, to "levitate" the road itself, one layer of drainage cells are required to be fitted underneath permeable bitumen so that there is no poissibility of potholes or water puddles on surface of road ever again.

The entire concept is defined as Low Impact Development (LID) whereby the basic road infrastructure is built to be porous for storm water to infiltrate to recharge groundwater table and not require it "to be carried elsewhere". In one stroke all the problems related to open, concrete, impermeable drains carrying contaminated water further polluted by garbage throwing in these drains is solved by installing these underground channels. No more poor Abhishek-like problems in Bangalore ever again!

RKC

RKC

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Is it economical for aam aadmi to possess ?

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Looks interesting.  My two audit paises,  

- whereall has this been installed and with what results? Seeing is believing.

- are there different models of this to show case it to the general public and for creating awareness

- none of the posts talk about  adaptability to tropical conditions, the garbage load that can fill the system of  permeability of trays 

- adptability to soil conditions - porus etc., and its capacity to withstand other vagaries

- Most of all its economic viability, potability of collected water, has it got any built in capacity for filtering toxic  and other polluting contents while percolating  water and before it reaches and replenishes ground water?

- finally, where exactly its installation is possible and how it helps and make the aam aadm's dependency on polluted tap water?

- I may have more questions later.

- Vasanth Mysoremath

RKCHARI's picture

Further Clarifications

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 Dear Friends,

I am answering Mr. Mysoremath's questions to the best of my ability hereunder:

1. There are over 20,000 installations in 30 countries worldwide. In India the technology is being introduced for the first time since June 2008. In the last one year we have been in the process of promoting our complete water management solutions to developers who have large multi-use townships with residential commercial and SEZ etc. Although no work has commenced as yet (we come in after excavation work commences), we are more or less confident our proposals will be accepted by the developers sooner than later. As on date we have 12 projects in the pipeline.

2. We essentially did not plan to 'market' our technology to the Government sector as it is wrought with mind-boggling bureaucracy for which we simply do not have any appetite. However, if there is any initiative from quasi-government bodies like ABIDe, we have no problem offering our technology and services. So the push to make it suitable for aam admi must come from Government, not by our initiative.

3. We have several applications of our technology with video and pictorial proofs of it being actually installed in all developing countries. Praja members who want to have a look at the various case studies are welcome to visit the Australian Company's web site (www.atlantiscorp.com.au).

4. The technology is not rocket technology and does not involve any chemicals or electricity at all. These are merely scientifically tried and tested modular retention / infiltration tanks which is installed underground. Being modular, it has unlimited capacity (limited only by the limitation of the catchment area), is flexible enough to be installed under front gardens or back yard of independent villas or under car parking areas in multi-storied apartment blocks. After installation, there is literally nothing that is visible to the naked eye, so applicability of technology under tropical conditions do not really apply to our solutions.

5. Since we recommend our storm water infiltration to be placed on either side of the road, fully covered with geo-textile, sand and permeable pavers, there is no possibility of garbage clogging the infiltration system. Please note these are storm water infiltration systems and not sewage pipelines or open raja kalaves. We have separate solutions for that too.

6.  Adaptability to soil conditions - since our entire technology is based on porosity of soil, this aspect has been thoroughly examined and adapted to suit any soil condition. If soil is clay-like and slow to absorb, we simply increase the height of the underground infiltration tank to give it more time to get infiltrated gradually, over a period of weeks or months. What we achieve is instant dryness on roads after a heavy shower with no flooding or water logging at the sides whatsoever. Once rainwater enters our infiltration tanks, how long it takes to further infiltrate to groundwater table is simply a calculation of rainfall pattern and catchment area size.

7. Rainwater per se does not have any dissolved chemical contaminants. Hence our simple method of filtering passing it through river washed sand and patented geo-textile ensures water that enters our retention tanks is 98.7% pure drinking quality water. Being underground and away from sunlight, there is no photosynthesis and no algae formation ever. Consequently, we promote ourselves as the only technology which offers 100% collection of rainfall which then is able to provide 98.7% pure potable water. No chemicals are used whatsoever. Our system is eclogically sustainable since it requires no maintenance at all. Minimum life of installation is 50 years!

8. Our weakest selling point is that our solutions are not economical and really not targetted for the weaker sections of society. The Australian Company promotes itself as a solution provider on a turnkey basis, rather than a vendor of some plastic material. Consequently, the solutions and products that come with it are expensive when compared to what may be indigenously put together.As we say our solutions are more the "Armani" solutions compared to what may locally be available as "Khadi Gram Udyog" solutions. We believe there is a niche market of township developers who are catering more and more to the higher echelons of society. We cater to that segment primarily. As they say, "if you pay peanuts, you will only get monkeys"!

9. It may however be pertinent to mention that we are high priced not because of any Customs Duty on our imported products. Being the only RWH Company providing drinking quality water, we import our complete solutions free of any Customs Duty as per CBCE notification No; 006/2003 of 31st March 2003. So our imported material is only marginally higher in cost from any similar locally purchased stuff (if available) due to a 2% freight cost. That too we are willing to absorb if the value of contract is substantial.

I hope I have answered most of the doubts raised.

Regards,

RKC

RKC

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Doubts remain-good attempt with 5 star/corporate language

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/About 20,000 installations worldwide/

I will wait till other prajas make some incisive comments regarding its usefulness to at least 10 percent out of 65 per cent of the population who may understand this hi-end green product.

In the meantime, why not come clean with how much it costs - low end to hi-end product cost of 'Armani' based RWH  - in order to continue the interest that appears to have been created with the above notes?

- Vasanth Mysoremath

 

RKCHARI's picture

Cost Element

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Hi,

As I said it is not the cost of the product but the complete turnkey solution that we provide. On a ball park indication, one lineal metre of storm water drains alone would cost aound US$ 100 and if it includes remodelling of road surface one would need to add another $35 per square metre.

For RWH the per Cubic Metre of water storage required would be around USD 200 inclusive of everything - pipes, gutters, filtration unit, tanks and installation.

But as I said, these are ball park figures. We actually provide for large developments, a concept design based on Master Plan drawings with an assessment of budgetary costs for all aspects of water management - free of cost. So if individual homes or multi-storied apartments approached us for providing such inputs, we would also give it  free of cost.

BTW, it appears my explanation of our process was perhaps unduly snobbish. Let me assure you that was not my intention. We would be happy to provide our solutions to any segment of society. Only that we feel the Government sector is too messy to handle.

Regards,

Chari

 

RKC

bikram satpathi's picture

Hi,      govt sec is too

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Hi,

     govt sec is too messy. No contest. How about getting some corporate involved? say INFOSYS / ITC / Military campus?

     Dont give up.

small example  KKPLASTICS used waste plastics (after good cleaning) in road laying 1998 -2002 with proper Tests & approval by CM KRISHNA. Thyag. Coll.  Engg.  Madurai did a similar job with support from ICPE. All issues were approved by Min Env & other Road certifying bodies. Polymers as binders in Road work is not new. Univ NZ has a course on it. Rural rds in TN have covered a lot of Plastic roads but Urban areas are a bit slow ( a part of process ).

Process is sound. Get Hotels Taj /  ITC into this . Go for the mil where rain fall is high 

 

Naveen's picture

Govt will wait till it has been proven

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Bikram,

You are right - I have pondered over this too ever since I saw the demo, & recognized that this has lot of potential.

Due to our clogged so-called "democratic" govt machinery, this technique will have to be demonstrated & proven many times over before it will even be recognized as a viable & better alternative than leading water off the street side drains into lakes or treatment plants.

At this time, it's utility is confined to 'eco-friendly' use, which still sounds like a fancy term for govt depts. In China & other east asian countries, govts are well ahead & in fact lay down standards for others to follow. In India, it is exactly the opposite.

RKCHARI's picture

Thanks for Suggestions

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Dear Friends,

A million thanks for all your suggestions. Actually we are concentrating heavily on Private sector rather than Government. Except fror the SWD which has now ballooned into a major Rajakulve issue and another proposal to Indian Railways, we are not touching Government sector with a barge pole!

But I am constrained to mention that even amongst Corporates like Infosys, IBM et al, there are several wheels within wheels. One does not get to meet the top brass easily and when one demonstrates and does presentations to the those in the Company incharge of water management and "green" concepts, they all seem to have their own agenda!

Anyway, I am not complaining. Just that the Indian market for this vital sector appears to have been thoroughly spoilt by an innate suspicious nature that we Indians seem to have in ample measure!!

Regards,
Chari

RKC

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