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Updates from BMRC meeting

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Metro RailPublic Transport

The meeting was delayed & began only at 4.40PM since BMRC officials were busy till then. Flwg items discussed & status advised by BMRC :

1) BMTC feeder services will be operated upon commissioning of Metro for 3km distances from all stations. Ticketing will be made common for feeder buses & Metro. Smart cards with online recharge facilities will be made available.

2) Passenger access at all stations will be by way of overhead skywalks /bridges from parking lots where parking is being made available, such as the larger /terminal /important stations.

3) At Yesvantpur, skywalk will be provided between metro & inter-city station. Due to land restrictions, parking area cannot be extended /provided, other than what is already available with SWR. Since TTMC is too far, it is not being covered for pedestrian access. Feeder bus services will be used to connect TTMC with metro station at Yesvantpur.

4) Interface between KSRTC /BMTC will be provided at Peenya.

5) Tunnel boring of UG sections will commence in Nov or Dec-10. Reach-3 (ie. Sampige Rd to Peenya) will become operational by Dec-2011. Ph-1 is expected to be fully completed /operational by March-2013.

6) Since depot infrastructure will be unavailable until tunnelling is over for reaches 2 & 4, they are engaged in brainstorming sessions for finding ways to operate trains on other reaches before tunnel works have been completed, particularly Reach-4 (KR Mkt to Puttenahalli). The idea is to carry out daily maintenance /servicing whilst the trains are stopped on tracks or at stations during the night.

7) They do not plan to operate dedicated buses between reaches as a stopgap arrangement.

8) Court stays for Vidhana Soudha UG Stn & Cricket stadium area is not a concern for them since they expect it to be cleared up soon.

9) Connecting ITPL will happen only in ph-2.

10) Ph-2: There will be route extensions from all four ends (ie. Mys Rd to Kengeri, Puttenahalli to PRR, Nagasandra to Int'l Exhibition center & Byp to ITPL). Also, two new routes are being explored: IIM to Nagawara & RV Rd to Electronic city. The DPR will soon be completed & routes finalized for ph-2.

Comments

Sanjeev's picture

Thanks for the Updates on METRO

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Thanks Navven & Sathya,  they have taken their precious time to attend the meeting with BMRCL  to get detail status.

We should make our efforts on the following points :

Point No 3: Due to land restrictions, parking area cannot be extended /provided, other than what is already available with SWR   Present facility at Yesvantpur station for vechile parking is very small & with expansion of station and METRO passengers using will become 2-3 folds, this will become big issue for pvt vechile parking and TTMC parking  will not serve the purpose. TTMC should have been built on SWR with PPP project betn SWR & BMTC instead at Yesvantpur circle.

Point No 4) Interface between KSRTC /BMTC will be provided at Peenya   : How about  integration at  other places with KSRTC

Point No 6  : Since depot infrastructure will be unavailable until tunnelling is over for reaches 2& 4   That means  BMRC has o plan more rakes as they can not be interchanged and  seperate maint. team with facility need to be set at two extra places.  Effect will be NAMMA METRO bleeding / making huge losses.  Then what planning BMRC has done to control the cost, 2 yrs back only  UG part should have been taken up. 

Point No 10 : Ph-2: two new routes are being explored: IIM to Nagawara     Please correct me others as per CTTP2007 & HSRL RFP, this segment was betn. IIM & Yelahanak & to provide feeder service to  HSRL  at Yelahanka HSRL station

Also on  integrating with HSRL,   how will METRO allow the Airport pasenegrs using METRO to catch HSRL at Yelahanka  to carry the heavy luggage. Take the case : as Passengers landing at BIAL will take HSRL with luggage and  get down at Yelahanka, then if METRO does not allow them to take  Luggage, what will be the fate of Passengers.

srinidhi's picture

phase 1 extensions..

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Thanks Naveen for the detailed report as always and thanks for taking up all the questions!

 Its highly debatable the usefulness of extensions of Ph1 especially to puttenahalli..

ITPL is a better candidate for PH1 extension than any other reach!

This will give maximum advantage to the metro itself..

Alas, this looks like will not be done for the next 4 -5 years!

Naveen's picture

Sanjeev - yr observations

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Sanjeev - yr observations :

How about  integration at  other places with KSRTC

- I don't think we can expect integration with inter-city buses at all metro stations. Integration at some important points on main highways has been planned, which shd be sufficient. If KSRTC buses have to stop at all metro stations, it would slow down inter-city buses considerably.

That means  BMRC has o plan more rakes as they can not be interchanged and  seperate maint. team with facility need to be set at two extra places.  Effect will be NAMMA METRO bleeding / making huge losses

- I don't think they will use more rakes. During the interim (until tunnel works are done), frequency of operation will be lesser, allowing the same number of rakes to operate on various reaches. Separate maint, teams would be necessary, but might be out of the same staff that will eventually work at depots. Some addnl costs might be incurred no doubt, but I guess this shd be okay -- after all, they are trying to operate trains on all reaches at the earliest to benefit commuters.

as per CTTP2007 & HSRL RFP, this segment was betn. IIM & Yelahanak & to provide feeder service to  HSRL  at Yelahanka HSRL station. Also on  integrating with HSRL, how will METRO allow the Airport pasenegrs using METRO to catch HSRL at Yelahanka to carry the heavy luggage. Take the case : as Passengers landing at BIAL will take HSRL with luggage and  get down at Yelahanka, then if METRO does not allow them to take Luggage, what will be the fate of Passengers.

CTTP2007 had recommended a route between PRR (Hosur Rd) & Yelahanka via Nagawara. BMRC appears to have split this up into two -- (1) Electronic city to RV rd; & (2) IIM to Nagawara. This looks better since it does away with the CTTP recommended monorail on Bannerghatta rd & also, connectivity improves with RV rd-EC route cutting across two other routes.

Since HSRL may take some time to materialize, I think they are planning to end the route in ph-2 at Nagawara (ORR), but may extend the line to Yelahanka later.

I'm not sure about luggage on metros - this had been done in Delhi to prevent possibilities of misuse /inconvenience & also danger from terrorists. Namma Metro may also follow the same.

silkboard's picture

No point in criticizing the routes

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@Srinidhi - I think we should move beyond criticizing the routing decisions now. There is never a best decision. I am sure they picked the extensions based on multiple criteria.

@ Sanjeev / Naveen - Parking is a tricky thing. Its better to have no parking at all if the station doesn't have enough space. Get off Metro, and take a bus in the CBD. and at the terminals, if there is no space, connect via the nearest TTMC.

TTMC to nearest station, or 3 km around the station bus-connect, and last 500 meters "Walking" connect - these are real critical areas to focus on for stations. Encouraging to see that point #1 is being addressed. Will be great to see the plans in advance and check from BMTC side if they are on the same page with BMRCL.

Overall, "catchment" connectivity is the best area where we all can add value right now. Let us leave routing tunneling etc things alone, and get down to details on catchment connects.

idontspam's picture

IR and monopoly

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 TTMC should have been built on SWR with PPP project betn SWR & BMTC 

This will not happen. SWR & IR have taken too much for granted, we need to take this to the center. Clearly passenger train travel has to go the airline route. IR can be one of the players like Indian but not the only. 

Naveen's picture

Agree with SB

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1) ITPL does attract large no. of commuters, but the need is to first address other areas that see even more commuters first, which is what is being done in ph-1. The extensions to Puttenahalli & Nagasandra on the N-S line was to extend the service to ORR & beyond as also to include Peenya ind. estate.

2) The need for parking space increases as one gets further away from the CBDs to address last mile options. However, within core areas, due to space constraints as also to encourage people to use PTs, the need diminishes.

ashfaq syed's picture

'BMTC will provide feeder 'bus' services to metro'. what?

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I am amazed at the stupidity of people who are incharge of BMRC for suggesting BMTC will provide feeder 'bus' service.  Have you heard of any city in the world where a 3 kilometer feeder vehicle is a Bus?.   These people do not understand the meaning of the word 'feeder'.  it is a small distance, fast connectivity service to a long distance bus or Train.  even in this congested roads of Bangalore the travel time for 3 kms should take less than 10 minutes.  if this distance takes 30 minutes including the waiting time, ticketing and in between stops etc with the BMTC bus, the whole purpose will be defeated. 

I hope the better minds will prevail and they recognize the need for smaller vehicles (like van or even shared auto) so that people reach the metro in less than 10 minutes.   

silkboard's picture

hey ashfaq

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Hey ashfaque, without knowing the definition of "bus", no need to jump into talk of "stupidity" etc. Don't take things literally please, these are most likely going to be 15 seater things. Some work is on to figure the routes and right type of vehicle.

See - contrary to what many may think, people who work at BMTC or BMRC aren't really all that stupid. The problem prevailing here and and almost every other transport issue in our city is interconnect between these agencies. If the feeder buses don't happen, it will most likely be because BMRC and BMTC will not cooperate well, and not because either of them does not know how and what of a feeder service.

We should regularly keep asking both BMTC and BMRC on how the feeder work is progressing. Let us not be sure that they will coordinate well enough.

idontspam's picture

One of the things mentioned

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One of the things mentioned in the meeting was that a lot of issues will be ironed out once the service is in place and a traffic pattern starts forming. Feeder is agreed and also single ticketing will be done using smart card. In fact even parking will use the same smart cards which can be topped up on the internet.

There is a crying need for a single transport authority for entire BMR region with statuatory powers. With all the turf wars and fight for revenue none of these modes see eye to eye at any level. We really need a CM who understands these issues and sets something up else we are on a slippery slope towards chaos and silo infrastructure with no real integration.

Vasanth's picture

Can we push through some MLAs for extension to ITPL

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 Is there any way we can push through local representatives for pushing Metro to ITPL in Phase 1 itself. It is highly important by seeing the traffic volume and travel time in this region. It is OK even if they compromise on the other side for balancing the funds such as Reach 2 and Reach 4 extensions.

ashfaq syed's picture

Feeder 'Bus'

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@ silkboard sir,

 If I know BMTC well, they are experts in 'trail and error' methodology.  They would start with their existing buses  and run it for six months and realize that it is not working and go with a smaller bus.  this process will continue for years before they come to an optimal size.  Meanwhile, demoralized commuters (after metro vanity wears out) will opt for their own vehicles. 

Yes there are few smart people in BMTC but, that is not enough.  a common sight on a bangalore road is an almost empty Volvo bus surrounded by hundreds of cars and bikes.  this is purely due to lack of scientific scheduling and routing of buses.  also due to lack of understanding the requirements.   I have traveled in airport buses for the last 6 months.  None of the times it is more that 5 people going to the airport or coming back from the airport.  it is understandable why people are not using these buses.  Who would like to be thrown out on the street with luggage to find their own way from the bus stop to home?.  what about the last mile connectivity?.  people who paid minimum 5000 rupees for airline ticket, can't they afford another 50 rupees for last mile connectivity if BMTC provides that?.  If they really want to do something productive, they should have feedback system, involve organizations like Praja in planning and use proper scheduling and routing of buses and not just taking suggestions and doing their own thing.

About BMRC, I don't know much about them, but, this much I know.  if the construction of metro take 2 to 4 years, isn't it their responsibility to provide good road next to construction sites?.  Just see the example of Delhi metro (I have seen the construction site pictures comparing both sites, I think in praja itself) it was clean road compared to hapazard way BMRC is doing.  

All I can say is bangalore people are too nice and they are exploiting it.

Ashfaq   

Vasanth's picture

Feeder is the key - else station will end up like Mall entrances

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We are better of  Metro stations without parking facilities. Stations with parking facilities will become something like in front of  Mantri mall with full of Chaos at the station entrance.

@ashfaq syed sir, I could not understand what you are trying to tell. I think you have not seen ITPL / Electronic City bound buses. All the buses run crowded despite of the fare structure. I take BMTC daily to work despite of having car and two wheeler.It is so painful as well as expensive to drive all the way. Same is the case for many Bangaloreans. They are all not doing any foolish thing, but have taken up social responsibility of using public transport as well as want to avoid painful driving.

BIAL is an exception case since BMTC is committed to serve to BIAL. Despite of the losses they are running the show.  Also, regarding last mile connectivity, we cannot expect PT to come to door steps. Same is the case worldwide , rather even worse.

Naveen's picture

Blaming without logic

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a common sight on a bangalore road is an almost empty Volvo bus surrounded by hundreds of cars and bikes.

I don't think this is correct. Though there might be some volvo buses as also other ordinary buses with few passengers at certain times during the day, generally, one finds volvo buses going full with many standees during peak hours, just like most other ordinary services too.

Who would like to be thrown out on the street with luggage to find their own way from the bus stop to home?.  what about the last mile connectivity? .  people who paid minimum 5000 rupees for airline ticket, can't they afford another 50 rupees for last mile connectivity if BMTC provides that?.

I think this is nothing but a rant. I am yet to see a PT system anywhere which undertakes "last mile connectivity". For those that want last mile connectivity, there are options such as autos, taxis or own vehicle pickup. Demanding this from BMTC or any PT is not warranted. City PT systems cannot be expected to cater to last mile.

About BMRC, I don't know much about them, but, this much I know.  if the construction of metro take 2 to 4 years, isn't it their responsibility to provide good road next to construction sites?.

Again, this appears too demanding without enough thought. Bangalore does not have wide roads & what road is left is too narrow at metro construction sites to provide "good road".

idontspam's picture

Valid concern

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 if the construction of metro take 2 to 4 years, isn't it their responsibility to provide good road next to construction sites?.

I actually think this is a valid concern, it boils down to construction practices in general and our tolerance to such interruptions. This cant be pinned to BMRC specifically but all agencies in general. BWSSB, BESCOM & BBMP are the worst in this. We can see the MG road under Trinity station in such pathetic state BMRC could just pour some asphalt and level it during construction. But this is a turf war, probably because it wasnt defined who will maintain the roads BBMP or BMRC or because BBMP & BMRC are parellel organizations and not necessarily reporting to one another. End result we suffer. Now we should realize one big body which can maintain control over the city instead of the myriad agencies fighting it out. General rule for any agency is that they leave the place the way they found it. In our case since BBMP keeps it like crap the other agencies dig and leave it like crap.

idontspam's picture

Last mile from BMTC

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  Demanding this from BMTC or any PT is not warranted. City PT systems cannot be expected to cater to last mile

Bus transport should be expected to complement larger train based mass transit system. It does not preclude BMTC from running trunk routes. But there has to be complementary system instead of duplication. Bus reach is higher than mass transit like trains which have ROW, but when distances increase bus becomes inefficient without ROW. So trunk routes like big 10 which cover long distances will use dedicated lanes or other ROW like elevated, while local zonal routes become feeders. A feeder doesnt mean local loops only always. They do include last mile but can touch multiple lines as crossways connecter

Naveen's picture

Last Mile was being dicussed

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What was being discussed was last mile connectivity (ie. from bus stop to home if the nearest bus stop happened to be too far to walk) & has nothing to do with trains or mass transits or trunk routes.

idontspam's picture

 What was being discussed was

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 What was being discussed was last mile connectivity 

Then read only my last line :)

pathykv's picture

Last KM

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It is quite clear that BMTC is not willing to help in the last KM.

It is uptp the Govt. (Transport Dept) to deploy private operators for this service or form a separate corporation for this purpose.

K.V.Pathy

idontspam's picture

Ideal last mile

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 It is quite clear that BMTC is not willing to help in the last KM.

Not really a good conclusion to draw. Yes, they have not made any changes to accomodate metro but metro isnt even running yet. The point I tried to make in the other comment as well was, BMTC's coverage of last mile doesnt have to exactly match the definition of the last mile. BMRC is running something close to the definition of last mile for 3Kms radius, not sure it is in collaboration with BMTC or by themselves. But BMTC has other ways to cover the last mile.

pathykv's picture

Last mile/KM

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My comment is not w.r.to Metro only.

The feedback from Bus Days has been that this problem is dissuading many people who initially tried to change over.

In other States like TN mini bus services are making roaring business and benefitting themselves as well as commuters for covering the lastKM nooks and corners at very affordable fares.

K.V.Pathy

ksnandan's picture

Slightly off topic

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Do I need permission from BMRC to take pics of the under construction Metro ???

idontspam's picture

 Do I need permission from

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 Do I need permission from BMRC to take pics of the under construction Metro ???

probably depends on if you are shooting from a public place like a road or you want to go into the metro properties to shoot. But nothing that I am aware of. Did anybody stop you?

ksnandan's picture

 I was taking few pics of the

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 I was taking few pics of the lalbagh station from a near by road, and the security guard stopped me from taking anymore pics.

I clicked this , before i was stopped.

 

rs's picture

Taking Photos

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I'm sure there is no rule - this sounds like the work of  some bored and over enthusiastic security guard. In many places the guards are so bored that any unusual activity gives them an opportunity to do something - and the only thing they can really do is attempt to stop it. I wouldnt worry about it - as far as I know India is still not a police state - at least for the middle class.

Ramesh

srinidhi's picture

tripod used?

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thats a panoramic shot..did u use photo stitch? If yes, used a tripod?

Maybe all the gear you had scared the security guy ..

as you know Lalbagh station attracted lot of negative press for the trees being brought down etc earlier..maybe he thought you were some threat!

Srivatsava's picture

The BMTC discussions on this thread

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Ashfaq, You are correct in one part of your observation about BMTC. They will surely start with 'normal' buses. They may later learn that mini-buses are better. But, dont worry sir, Metro will not be full fledged from Day1. The feeders need not be full-fledged too :). They can be tweaked later.

I am afraid I have to disagree on almost everything. I know for a fact that about a month and a half back, the BMTC had the feeder routes for the metro reach 1 ready. Our contact at BMTC showed me the routes plotted on a map (I saw a colourful printout). I can also tell you that the routes were discussed internally at BMTC and have been discussed with BMRC too. I have indepentent confirmation of the same from officials (in the know how of these) of both organisations.

lack of scientific scheduling and routing of buses

Please check out the ITPL/EC buses, which are both full and fairly frequent. Other than that, there are routes like 45G which were very successful with Volvos/Vajras. Let me highlight that BMTC is no more making losses on Vajra. They broke even a couple of months back. And despite the price hike, their ridership has increased tremendously in the past 4-6 monnths.

About the airport link routes (Vayu Vajras).

I know that about a year back, only 10% of the VV travellers took them to the airport. 90% of the tickets sold were in the direction towards the city. I am not sure what the directional split today.

Last-mile connectivity - If I am not wrong, there is already an arrangement between BMTC and Meru Cabs (or is it all airport cabs?) to provide the last mile connectivity. It would be provided for a standard cost of Rs150/-, apart from the BMTC fare. All you need to do is to ask the conductor of the bus (or the manager at the airport station of BMTC) for the telephone number. Make a call when you get on to the VV at airport and you will have a cab for you at your alighting bus stop. The Rs150/- fare may have gone up today,it may have a restriction on the distance from bus stop to home etc, but it is available for a price.

-Srivatsava V

Sanjeev's picture

since Aug 2010, BMRCL has not move other then cost sharing

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3) At Yesvantpur, skywalk will be provided between metro & inter-city station. Due to land restrictions, parking area cannot be extended /provided, other than what is already available with SWR. Since TTMC is too far, it is not being covered for pedestrian access. Feeder bus services will be used to connect TTMC with metro station at Yesvantpur.

Regarding skywalk at METRO to Yesvanthpur station,  both SWR and BMRCL  have not move an inch during this 6 years time,  result is poor patronage at Yesvanthpur station with just 2000 foot falls which is even way below the any good BMTC bus stops.

Here latest Indian Express cover this : 

YESHWANTPUR:The proposed foot overbridge (FOB) connecting Yeshwantpur Railway Station to Yeshwantpur Metro Station is unlikely to materialise in the near future with the Railways and the Bangalore Metro Rail Corporation Ltd (BMRCL) refusing to come to an agreement.

According to the plan, the nearly 100-metre bridge will start from the east end of the Metro station, pass above the taxi and autorickshaw stands outside the railway station and join the existing FOB on platform six. The railway FOB connects all the platforms in the station. According to top officials, Metro wants the Railways to bear half the construction cost but the latter is willing to give nothing more than its consent for the project.

It also looks as though BMRCL is not actively pursuing its own idea due to the shockingly poor patronage at its Yeshwantpur station. The station figures in Reach

3 and 3A, inaugurated on March 1 last year, which connects Peenya Industry to Sampige Road station. BMRCL Managing Director Pradeep Singh Kharola told City Express that they would continue to hold talks with Railways on cost sharing. “This FOB will benefit commuters using Metro services as well as those using trains. The project cost needs to be shared,” he said.

According to an official source, the project will cost around Rs 4 crore. Lakshman Singh, Divisional Railway Manager (Works), Bengaluru Division, said, “We have held three rounds of talks since 2012. The original idea was that Railways should give Metro consent as it (FOB) will pass through its property.” Insisting that Railways does not require the FOB, he said, “Metro is a new development in this area. We will not share the project cost as Metro is the one that requires the overbridge.”

Singh added that Railways has already assisted BMRCL by giving it a huge chunk of its land at a highly subsidised rate for the construction of the Metro station in Yeshwantpur.

POOR RESPONSE AT METRO STATION

Yeshwantpur Metro station sees a footfall of nearly 2,000 a day, which is way short of the target, said U A Vasant Rao, Chief Public Relations Officer, BMRCL. “We estimated a passenger traffic of around 40,000 a day but the response has not been along expected lines.” However, passenger traffic is expected to soar when Phase I of Namma Metro is completed, he added.

http://www.newindianexpre...

Where is Urban Development Minister Venkaya Naidu ??? does he know this how Officials  of SWR and METRO are playing and wasting time and they have no respect for commuters.

Sanjeev's picture

Development of Intermodal Transit Hub,Opposite Yeshwantpu METRO

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Report was submitted 28th Mar 2012 to IDD  but no progress

Development of  Intermodal  Transit Hub,  opposite Yeshwanthpur METRO station by integrating METRO station, Yesvanthpur Railway station, BMTC and KSRTC

Project Site: The site identified for the development of Intermodal Transit Hub (ITH) presentlyowned by the Karnataka Food & Civil Supplies Corporation (KFCSC). The site isopposite to theYeshwanthpur Railway station along the service road on NH-4 (Tumkur Highway)

http://www.iddkarnataka.g...

This was best  proposal by IDD and  would have made big difference to METRO usage and roadn decongestion.  GOK and GOI bothn have messed it and lost an good opportunity.

Good  proposals in GOK are finding best place in steel almera. Very unfortunate. 

GOK is spending Crores of Rupees on TENDER SURE, other METRO  acitivites not related to transport, road widening.

Some common sense in GOK could have made big difference at Yesavnthpur and for METRO ridership.

xs400's picture

Dystopian vision for Namma Metro

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There is a big flaw in our thinking - Namma Metro when it arrives will not be the Metro you see in Europe, but our own Desi Metro (or does "Namma Metro" say it all?!).

 

  1. Metro will not follow any schedule (we will throw away this alien concept and bring in our own concept of time)
  2. Metro will not be fast - why follow rules on the Metro when we dont on the road? BMRCL employees will stop the train anywhere to drop or pick up their buddies.
  3. No signals or no protocols, each driver will decide if he should stop or just ram through - accidents every day.
  4. Driver will decide if he wants to stop at stations
  5. There seems to be enough space besides the track to run 2 wheelers and may be even autos - expect it to happen soon
  6. Some points are great for an evening celebration - VIP weddings, or puja pandal on the tracks.
  7. A/C will be switched off, because - Namma Metro is already the costliest in the world and we need to recoup our losses
  8. Special track for Auto wallahs and cab drivers displaced by the metro. Of 2 tracks, 1 will be reserved for 'locals'.
  9. Garbage will make its way into Namma Metro (and why not?)
  10. Vendors will be allowed to cook and sell (after all they are a formidable vote bank) on the Metro
  11. Local slums will be sold to developers for a handsome amount and Metro stations will be allotted to the "homeless" for shelter
  12. There will be ticket checking and also "outsiders" will have to pay more.
  13. Metro will be jam packed and no one will travel on it except politicians' bodyguards and their friends
  14. Metro will be abandoned for months as there will be a shortage of "electricity"
  15. Ticket counters will not be open at all times, buy tickets when the window is open (if you can, that is) there will be a huge queue at all times
  16. There will be plenty of free travel as tokens will be counterfeited easily
  17. In the post-Modi era, Metro will be a symbol of westernization and the local groups will stop the Metro on any pretext
  18. Some overhead tracks will collapse, because of exceeding design loads

Hey, this is all very positive  because, I'm assuming the Metro will be completed.

 

 

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