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Again - HSRL Or Metro ?

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Commuter RailMetro RailPublic Transport

This report from TOI states that BMRC may build a Metro route to BIAL instead of HSRL due to ongoing recession & lack of interset by private parties - the old debate has resurfaced, yet again.

The solution may be for BMRC to build elevated double sets of tracks along Bellary road /highway to operate less frequent express /skip-stop services to BIA (say, once each half-hour), simultaneously with more frequent regular metro along the route up to Devanahalli - something like "killing two birds with one stone" !

The financial approach can be the same as for other Metro routes being built in the city - ie. utilise public funds & loans instead of involving private sector funding. Viability gap funding (VGF) has already been approved by the central govt for this - thus, some financial relief has already been obtained.

Comments

blrsri's picture

Metro is the way!?

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 Sreedharan mentioned the following abt HSRL:

*Metro needs large scale land acquisition - What are we talking here? Lets compare apples to apples..DMRCL is on Broad guage and we are on Std..HSRL is smaller than std guage metro train? Is HSRL a monorail?

*Metro travel time from city to BIA is one hour, HSRL 23 minutes - 23 or 35 min assured is ok with us

*Metro not ideal for connecting far off places like BIA..Metro is viable only if the ridership is over 25,000 per hour per direction - We are trying to develop devanahalli area and yelahanka..should this be still a problem?

*Metro cannot have check-in facilities - Who needs these anyways when ppl are doin telechekin and net check in

*Metro connecting airport in other countries hardly patronised - False stmt..was checking on busiest apts around the world..Atlanta/Chicage etc..all have local trains to apt

*HSRL doesn’t need much land as it runs on pillars - Metro is running on stils for major portion in Blr already

 

Sreedharan is busy with the mishaps in DMRCL..its good if we decide for a Metro now!

Naveen's picture

Train to BIAL

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Metro needs large scale land acquisition - What are we talking here? Lets compare apples to apples..DMRCL is on Broad guage and we are on Std..HSRL is smaller than std guage metro train? Is HSRL a monorail ?

As per my understanding, HSRL is defnitely not a monorail. It is a fast train designed along the eastern edge on Bellary rd involving minimal land acquistion due to absence of stations en-route. If a Metro has to be built along the same alignment, it would involve more land acquisition since there would be stations & pedestrian infrastructure every kilometer. Doubling tracks (elevated) to allow for a limited or non-stop service to BIAL will involve more land acquisition, but makes sense, in my opinion since there is a need for a smaller (3-coach) fast train exclusively for BIAL & the business park employees apart from another service that connects various other intermediate points to the city.

Metro travel time from city to BIA is one hour, HSRL 23 minutes - 23 or 35 min assured is ok with us

A Metro train that stops each kilometer along the way will not make it to BIAL in 35 minutes - the distance is some 33 kms from MG road. So, at an average speed of 32 km (including stops), it will take just over 60 minutes.

Metro not ideal for connecting far off places like BIA..Metro is viable only if the ridership is over 25,000 per hour per direction - We are trying to develop devanahalli area and yelahanka..should this be still a problem ?

Lets see it this way - Bangalore's spread so far has been in the south & east /west, mostly. Thus, EC is a good 45km+ away from BIAL for most. This is a very large distance for any city airport. In comparison, even NewYork's JFK is closer from the furthest points of the city. Thus, commuters bound for the airport & surrounds do need a service that goes fast since a regular Metro will take longer than road transport (ie. taxis).

Metro cannot have check-in facilities - Who needs these anyways when ppl are doin telechekin and net check in

Not all use tele or net check-in. What about those with heavy suitcases ? Remote checkin facilities were designed to address this lot, primarily. If a fast train is available that also includes these services, most would opt for this, but if a Metro takes over an hour, there may be fewer takers for it.

Metro connecting airport in other countries hardly patronised - False stmt..was checking on busiest apts around the world..Atlanta/Chicage etc..all have local trains to apt

True, but the distances to the airport & travel time by a regular Metro in these cities may be shorter.

HSRL doesn’t need much land as it runs on pillars - Metro is running on stils for major portion in Blr already

As explained, more land is necessary for Metro than for HSRL.

s_yajaman's picture

Have a feeling neither will happen

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If you look at the DPR it had passenger traffic figures of 30 million for 2016-17.  BIAL itself thinks it will do about 15 million in 2014/15.

in a global sourcing world nowadays the initial costs and operating costs don't vary much across the world.  HK's Airport Express costs 90HKD or about Rs.600.  How will this HSRL break even at rs.150 and for a much smaller airport? 

Naveen - Metro beyond yelahanka might not need more than 4-5 stops or about one every 3-4 km.  The average speed after Yelahanka could be almost 50-60 kmph.   Thus about 20 mins to yelahanka and 20 mins beyond that.

Second I am sure that the construction and rolling stock costs for the HSRl will be more than for the Metro.  This might very well offset any extra stations needed after Yelahanka for the Metro.  Also the tracks till yelahanka can serve Metro as well. 

This HSRL will not help E-City much.  Reaching MG Road is the real nightmare.  For them it is better to extend NICE PRR to NH7.  They can average 60 kmph easily and make it in 1 hr. 

Anyway - I doubt either will happen :)

Srivathsa

 

 

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

Naveen's picture

Would Metro be better than HSRL ?

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Srivathsa :

Projections by BIAL or from the DPR - these give an estimate for only the immediate, known future. If a train is to be built, it will probably be ready only in 2014 (or later), given the slow pace that such mega-infra projects take to plan & build. What about the distant future ? In about 25-30 years, we might see 40 or even 50 million using BIAL each year. Surely, this demands a fast connection, & I think it's better to plan or at least make provision for one now than to regret later (& continue to have the same old Bangalore that we have today !).

Installation costs may be nearly the same everywhere (India benefits only from lower labor costs for building), but operating costs are lower in India due to much lower cost of power & labor. Spare-parts costs will be nearly the same everywhere.

HK's new airport (at Lantau Is.) needs an express as much as we need one here due to the very large distance. It may not cost 600rs, as it does in HK. 250rs is more likely with the cheaper operating costs. Even KL has a rail connection due to the distance & fares are subsidised for airport workers. These calculations have already been made & a VGF of some 1000-odd crores had been arrived at, & has the green signal from the central govt..

I agree - at present, Metro beyond yelahanka might not need more than 4-5 stops or one about every 3-4 km, but what happens later (I mean after about 25 years) ? It may be better to plan the Metro (if one is being built) with fewer stations now, but have options for building them at one-km intervals for the future.

I still feel it's better to have double tracks & have both, or make provision for both. If this were done, airport expresses could even run like normal metros right upto EC & speed up once past Hebbal or Yelahanka - this would be better than HSRL.

Either way (ie. HSRL or Metro), costs may not vary much, but future commuter needs must command what they go in for & not what is convenient to build now or who wins the argument (ABIDe or Govt).

All financial disasters with railways in India (Chennai MRTS, Kolkata Howarh-airport train, Kolkata circular rail, Delhi circular rail, etc.) have occurred because they built what was convenient & where "land was available". None were centered around commuter needs, & certainly, Bangalore must not repeat these same mistakes.

s_yajaman's picture

Planning for 25-30 years - need to consider this

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Naveen,

Please check this link out.  Might throw some light on 25-30 years hence :)  The problem with most projections is that they project history and assume plenty of cheap oil to fund all our growth.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/warning-oil-supplies-are-running-out-fast-1766585.html

"In its first-ever assessment of the world's major oil fields, the IEA concluded that the global energy system was at a crossroads and that consumption of oil was "patently unsustainable", with expected demand far outstripping supply.

Oil production has already peaked in non-Opec countries and the era of cheap oil has come to an end, it warned.

In most fields, oil production has now peaked, which means that other sources of supply have to be found to meet existing demand.

Even if demand remained steady, the world would have to find the equivalent of four Saudi Arabias to maintain production, and six Saudi Arabias if it is to keep up with the expected increase in demand between now and 2030, Dr Birol said. "

I would think very hard before spending 5000 crores on anything except for a city mass transit.

Srivathsa

 

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

idontspam's picture

HSRL running on petrol?

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  assume plenty of cheap oil to fund all our growth.

Or is nuclear power never going to make it in our country?

Naveen's picture

Make Provisions, At Least

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Srivathsa :

Thanks for the link - You are not alone, I am pondering, too over the question of future energy supplies. You may have also heard about Russia's claim over vast parts of the Arctic because of it's oil potential not to mention other surrounding countries, in total diregard for the environment.

In this context, have you seen the presentation "Population, Arithmetic, and Energy" by Prof. Albert A. Bartlett ? If not, click here. This link was provided by IDS.

On the one hand we have these scientific observations & analysis about how fast we are consuming & over-exploiting available resources, & on the other, we have the reality of a fast expanding urbanized future staring us in the face in India & China, where tens of millions are migrating to the larger metropolises as employment is becoming more & more unattractive in the rural hinterlands.

I would do the same as what you say - spend the least for present day needs. However, I would also make appropriate provisions for the future based on present-day trends & leave the rest to the almighty !

If a call needs to be made, I would ensure that whatever is put up now will have possibilities for long-term future needs - we are not really in a position to forecast how things may eventually pan out, but we know that cities are going to surely expand in the near /medium term - this is undesirable, but a reality. It's also a reality that cities are competing with one another for more & more investments & job creation, including ones in the west. Thus, airplane movements will increase in the near /medium term for sure, particularly in India & China.

Despite or because of these warnings, I suspect China is still building everything relentlessly - from airports, harbors, roads to power plants, dams & railroads. Use it while it lasts, else others might gobble it up & be better placed for later ! This appears to be the guiding principle, even for the west - America has been importing a large proportion of it's oil needs for this very reason.

tsubba's picture

one question

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i had a question slightly off the topic. how many tracks will there be on the current metro, say for example reach one. looking at some th epics, they looked rather narrow for two tracks. i may be wrong though

blrsri's picture

believe its 2 lines..

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as detailed in the link below..

http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/bangalore_metro/ 

Naveen's picture

TS - Welcome

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There will be two sets of tracks (Up & Down). They are narrow as a metro coach width is only abt 2.9m. Two coaches with clearance between them & space for emergency side walks may take up appxly 10m max (width of the viaduct), whereas road width is over 40m.

s_yajaman's picture

Planes running on nuclear fuel?

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You seemed to have missed the point entirely.  Please read this document at leisure

http://web.archive.org/web/20070102143106/http://srb.stanford.edu/nur/oil_war.pdf

Even if the technology was developed for nuclear powered planes - I doubt they would be allowed to take off.  You don't want the equivalent of nuclear missiles flying around our cities. 

My point was that the future of airports and aeroplanes is heavily tied to oil and economic growth and not about the energy needed for running a train.  The future passenger projections for BIAL, etc cannot just be based on historical growth patterns that were allowed only because oil was relatively inexpensive. 

Srivathsa

 

 

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

s_yajaman's picture

@IDS - read this on the future of nuclear energy

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IDS,

Found this serendipitiously on another discussion forum I frequent.  I would urge you to take the time and read it.  Data trumps hopes almost always. 

http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/5631

See the summary at the bottom of the link.

  • The overall fraction of nuclear energy to electric energy has gone down from 18% in 1993 to less than 14% in 2008. With electric energy providing roughly 16% of the world-wide energy end use, one finds overall a nuclear energy contribution of less than 2.5%.
  • The number of produced TWhe of electric energy from world-wide nuclear power plants is now lower than in 2005, and it has decreased by about 2% from a maximum of 2658 TWhe in 2006 to 2601 TWhe in 2008.
  • Today and world wide, 48 nuclear power plants with a capacity of about 40 GWe are under construction. Only 10% of them are being constructed within OECD countries, which host currently about 85% of the existing nuclear reactors. However, about 100 older reactors with slightly larger capacity are reaching their retirement age during the same period. It follows that even if all 48 reactors might be connected within the next 5 to 10 years to the electric grid, it will be difficult to maintain the current level of TWhe produced by nuclear energy.
  • The natural uranium equivalent required to operate the 370 GWe nuclear power plants of today is roughly 65,000 tons per year. However during the past 10 years, the world-wide uranium mines extracted, on average, only about 40,000 tons of uranium per year, and the difference had to be compensated for by secondary resources. According to the data from the Red Book 2007 and the WNA, the remaining civilian uranium stocks are expected to be exhausted during the next few years. Consequently the current uranium supply situation is unsustainable.
  • The urgency to increase world-wide uranium mining by a large amount is well documented in the current and past Red Book editions and related official declarations. However, the latest uranium mining data indicate that new uranium mines will not be capable to compensate for the diminishing secondary uranium resources, and that it will be difficult to fuel the existing 370 GWe. It seems that either a rather welcome but improbable further large conversion of nuclear weapons into reactor material will happen during the coming years, or fuel supply problems within the next 3-5 years will force a 10-20 GWe reduction of the operational nuclear power capacity.

Highlights mine.  Best hopes for a nuclear future. 

Srivathsa

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

idontspam's picture

Past is no indication of future

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 @SY

But past can provide clues on what to avoid in future. Havent read the link but from your summary I should point out. New fast breeder reactors can use reprocessed uranium. This data only focuses on the new sources and reactors built for fresh uranium. The old ones are of no use since they cant process spent fuel. The reliance on coal because it is cheaper and can be onstream faster is preventing wider adoption. There are already plans to increase that ratio to meet the new 2deg norms along with tighter controls on nuclear fuels. Like I mentioned elsewhere it is not about moving completely off into nuclear or one source lieu of the other but having an optimal mix of using nuclear, hydro, wind, solar. 

s_yajaman's picture

I am waiting for the FBR update

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IDS,

The status and prospects of FBRs will be covered later.  I will post the link when I get it.

My post was in the context of putting up a HSRL based on projections of air travel that don't account for future oil shortages - we saw how badly a 1 week diesel shortage hit us last July or August.   Our first priority should be to take cars and bikes off the roads in the city.  That will serve air travellers and city dwellers both rather than just air travellers.  That has always been my stand. 

Secondly, IMHO it is better that we assume that fossil fuel availability will be scarce in 10 years time and build our transportation policies around that.  It will save us from a nasty shock.

Srivathsa

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

Naveen's picture

Systems will evolve based on the past

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" It is better that we assume that fossil fuel availability will be scarce in 10 years time and build our transportation policies around that "

Well, new developments have always centered around existing needs & systems in use. When it was found that oil was a better alternative to coal, the diesel engine was designed, & later, electric trains were made - but, the existing tracks & coaches did not need to be replaced. In fact, the same coaches were in use for decades & overhead cables were added above train tracks.

Likewise, aircraft propellers have been replaced with jet engines & gas turbines - again, not requiring much change in what aircraft infrastructure had already been created - the same continue to be used even today.

Nuclear energy is used extensively by navies around the world for submarines & battle ships with a good safety record. The problem with nuclear energy is that people associate it with bombs /explosion & radiation, by & large, & wish it away. Progress on development of nuclear power reactors (such as FBR) has been slow due to availability of much cheaper coal & oil.

We are in a period of uncertainty, no doubt. Whilst there is no denying the possibility of oil becoming scarce in the coming decades if not years, I think it is quite unnecessary to hesitate or postpone the city's plans for creating transport infrastructure based on an anticipated oil shortage in the future.

Oil will be replaced by other means - geothermal, nuclear, wind, solar, tidal - anyone or all might take off depending on needs at the time.

blrsri's picture

biofuel is already being tested

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 on airplanes..

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2008/11/boeing-says-thr/

Air Newzeland is trying with Jathropha..that we are familiar with..

http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10130320-54.html

As Naveen puts it, Bernoulli's principles of flight will be there always and we will need runways to put flying objects in the air efficiently..

And we love flying dont we..so lets feel assured that alternatives will always be there, as its driven by need!

n's picture

HSRL bids opened ..

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.. and seem to gotten a good response. At Naveen: Excellent explanation of HSRL vs. metro at "Train to BIAL". Didn't understand one point though - how will doubling of tracks for skip-stop services work if extra land for stations and pedestrian facilities are not provided?


Naveen's picture

HSRL - Great !

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Good news.

N: What I meant was that, at present, we might not need a Metro that stops each kilometre en-route to BIAL. The present need is for a fast train to reach BIAL for air travellers as well as airport workers, etc. However, provision needs to be made for a metro operating upto BIAL also to connect various intermediate points that may become necessary in the future. Thus, I had mentioned that if a Metro (under BMRC) is being considered for BIAL, it might be better to plan for double tracks to allow for both - a fast, non-stop service, as also a regular service later. If a regular metro is to be built later, it would obviously involve higher land acquisition at that time (whenever it is built) to provide stations & other related facilities.

Vasanth's picture

4 Lines ?

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Seeing Naveen's point it looks it may need 4 lines, two for Metro and two for HSRL. HSRL can go with three if the frequency is 30 minutes expecting the travel time to be 30 minutes and with a narrow stretch of double line where crossing can occur.  If it is 1 hour frequency, we could have a single track with one train travelling back and forth.

 

 

s_yajaman's picture

Good response - concerns remain.

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a. My skepticism remains on the viability of this project; but who am I to question the wisdom of big companies :).  Their money.  Their funeral :).

b. It is good that companies like Reliance, L&T, etc have put in bids.  At least they will do work fast and reasonably neatly as their revenues depend on finishing it on time.

c. My big concern is this - the global economy will tank again because of high oil prices - demand will outstrip supply sooner than later.  This could be in 2011 or 2012.  I hope they don't leave behind half finished stuff when that happens.  http://www.technewsworld.com/story/The-US-Perilous-Path-to-Energy-Enslavement-68214.html 

http://www.dnaindia.com/money/comment_why-crude-oil-prices-will-keep-going-up_1291997

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/09/27/18623488.php

Links are just to let you know that I am NOT some lone crackpot living in some strange alternate universe. 

Srivathsa

 

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

rs's picture

I think this HSRL is another

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I think this HSRL is another stupid idea which will cost too much and have no benefits. Airport workers will not  pay 200 rupees on a daily basis to use and and the business traveller will still prefer to take a taxi for the convenience. The only people who will use it are the vacation travellers and that too if there is only one person going. If two or three people are travelling its cheaper to take a taxi.

Finally - thousands of trees along Chowdiah road will be hacked. They can make a HSRL from Hebbal flyover and be done with it. This way they wont screw up the city more.

 

 

pravn1984's picture

Yes.concerns remain

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Big companies have shown interest in HSRL indicates that it is viable. It raises a few concerns in addition to the above:

a) We should try to understand how these companies would recover about 4000 crore( 1000 cr though VGF from govt as per the report).To understand this we would need to know the terms of this deal like..number of years for which the operator can collect toll, toll cap if any, any other concessions like extra land. This would help prevent the problems , like in the only big PPP exercise in karantaka i.e NICE

b)As i understand ,HSRL  will involve lot of land acquisition. How this would be handled is the big question.

c)I am unable to understand the rationale behind having a terminal in palace ground vis-a vis majestic  because for a person who is living in south bangalore will need more exchanges to reach destionation.(even after metro is in place).

d)Also, as raised above will there be metro tracks also built along with HRSL. If not, after a few years when there is more development in hebal-devanahalli stretch ,we would need another metro track.

rs's picture

Besides the 5000-6000 crore

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Besides the 5000-6000 crore expenditure will also double - as it has for the metro. After all, a major part of the increase in cost is due to the higher salaries coming from the 6th pay commision ( at least thats what a newspaper report indicated ). The same will apply to HSRL.  

Frankly I dont understand this airport obsession. It seems to me that most infrastructure in Bangalore is catering to people wanting to get out quickly ! And this is coming at a huge environmental cost to the city. Its sometimes shocking to see how many trees have been hacked. And the so called replanting things are a joke.

To me it makes sense to make a metro line to the airport - perhaps non-stop from Yelahanka. This will cater to a lot more people - the casual traveller as well as the airport employee. They could, for example, extend the Yeshwantpur line along ORR and Hebbal to the airport.

Or, of course, use the existing SWR line - but that doesnt make anyone any money.

Ramesh

 

Vasanth's picture

HSRL to Mysore Airport from Bangalore !!!

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 This is just a thought, instead of 30 minute travel to BIAL using HSRL, we could have 1 hour travel to Mysore and probably 1 hr 10 minute travel to Mysore Airport. It caters Bangalore-Mysore travellers,  results in faster travel competing to NICE to Mysore as well as we could get more planes to Mysore which is lacking airlines operating out of the airport. In this way, Mysore will develop as a parallel city to Bangalore.  We will not have that Airport Development Charges of 600 rupees for Domestic Airport and 900 rupees for international Airport.

Route surveyed by NICE is 110 kms to Mysore. A train at 160 kph can cover 110 kms in almost  or less than 1 hour.

This is one of my crazy idea!! But who knows..

 

avinash2060's picture

Bids for rail link to int’l airport opened

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[Admin note: Deleted the comment since it was a copy-paste from news paper without proper attribution]

avinash2060's picture

Tata, Reliance, L&T in race for HSRL

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Bengaluru Airport Rail Link Ltd (BARL), which is implementing the project, has received request for qualification (RFQ) from five consortiums: Reliance Infrastructure, Pioneer Infratech-Seimens (Tata Group), Larsen & Toubro, Lanco Infra and ITD-TDC.CEM for the Rs 5,767 crore project.
Full story at : http://www.deccanchronicle.com/benga...-race-hsrl-340

[Admin note: Please do not copy-paste whole articles from newspapers. Deleted the full text and retained the link]

anton's picture

  Everything boils down to

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Everything boils down to how confident the authorities are about keeping a the passage between BIAL and the city always open, important for maintaining Bangalore’s image as a world class city

In KL, discretion being the better part of valour, the government opted to install a high speed link to the Airport. Good thing they did: KL is a huge parking lot for vehicles for most of the day.

In Sweden, you can set your watch by the bus arrivals and departures, its that good. But they still have a rail link.

 

n's picture

More on HSRL

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HSRL seems to have entangled itself in one-upmanship (just like the monorail did; there are good reasons to vigourously debate the monorail, but no good reasons to stall the HSRL). There is a strong possibility that it will go the way of BIAL or even NICE (big projects taking a loooong time and/or getting stymied at every step). Why should the HSRL still be stalled with good private response/participation defies logic and reason. It would make better sense to plan for the future and acquire more land for a (potential) future metro but does not make sense to have obstacles and go back and forth on decisions already made. But then, nobody accused our officials of having long-term vision, being good planners and go-getters, so they maintain the status-quo ;-).


n's picture

Update on HSRL

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The HSRL seems to be moving along. Hope the project is finalized, kickstarted and finished without a lot of delays/controversies. The confusing aspect is that the metro might also be extended - wonder if there will be a mandate for the two to "interact" (i.e. run on the same alignment). Also makes one wonder who the "boss" would be - the private HSRL player or the quasi-govt. BMRCL? <Sarcastic> Interesting but oft-repeated times ahead.</sarcastic>


Sanjeev's picture

All of us thinking that Zip

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All of us thinking that Zip to BIA is total comfort, its fooling around. If any one has gone thru the details of the project approval by State, The details of sanction on expected cost of project  Based on Oct'2007 market cost, :

1. Project Cost is Rs 5800 Crore, Excluding tax incentive, cost of the land 15 Hectares which Govt & BBMP has to transfer to HSRL with Free which will be around Rs 200 Crore.
 
2. Cost of Underground section at Air Force Station Yelahanka ( as Air Force yet to agree a Final alignment ) is not considered. This going to cost  around  Rs 500 Crore
 
3. Cost of improvement / Traffic Integration at Cubbon / MG Road not been included. This will cost arround Rs 100 Crore.
This additional cost will be of Rs 700 Crore
 
With escalation since Dec'07 will work out to be Rs 400 Crore at lower side .
With other hidden cost which as we are not aware.
With all this cost will works out Rs 7500 Crore. Now private person will have to make profit in this project, hence we will see the cost of traveling in this HSRL will be more then Rs 1000 /- for single travel aftr project completes.  With only three stations to board and to save few minitues, this will not cater to major passengers
What about people residing on the enroot and Electronic city, Whitefiled, Mysore road, Thumakur Raod, Old Madras Road Dodballapur, Chikballapur & Yelahanka. They will prefer to use METRO upto nearest point & use BMTC or City Taxi.
With New Airport cost of Rs 1500 crore, now we need to invest further 5 times to get this HSRL.  I hope all concerned citizens should pusch for  the Commuter Rail System with existing SWR track to be utilized for this with Fast & Slow train similar to Mumbai local train for connectivity to New Airport.
Also think of NHAI new project on NH-7 signal free which is going to take off soon & its effect?
Naveen's picture

HSRL - Is a Longterm Strategy

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Sanjeev,

It's true that the expenditure is very high - the recent DH article quotes 9270 crores ($2 billion). However, most of this investment will be borne by the private consortium with govt contributing land, etc. Thus, the state does not have to invest capital heavily nor do they stand exposed to financial risks. In fact, they would be insulated & the risk will be borne entirely by the selected private firm - this is why it is more attractive than other conventional transport options.

The consortium has 30 years to recover costs, & air travel, being a growth sector, traffic will definitely increase. They will probably end up making profits in about 15-20 years after commencement of operations.

Government will have a say in ticket pricing, & cost for travel may not be unreasonably high - it has to attract customers too.

As regards passengers from areas away from HSRL pickup stations, BIA buses with combined ticket for both bus & HSRL is a possibility that might be explored. Travel by Metro might not be permitted for passengers with heavy luggage. The idea would of course be to make things more convenient & less pricey than travel by other modes such as taxis.

Many cities abroad too have similar arrangements with private firms - Vienna is an example which has suburban as well as City-Airport exclusive trains (CAT). Despite the presence of cheaper suburban trains, most use the CAT for it's convenience & fast non-stop connection to airport from city.

The CRS option with existing SWR tracks would mean that airport trains would be slower, will need to share tracks with other long distance trains (this will interfere with schedules) & also, they will have to either start from east (Beniganahall) or from west (Yeswantapur), & not from city centre. This had been debated on praja earlier - see link below:

http://praja.in/en/blog/n...

srinidhi's picture

BMLTA will do good?

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 Now its said that BMLTA has absolute authority to decide on whats good for blr..

http://www.thehindu.com/2010/02/04/stories/2010020453040300.htm

Hope they very carefully evaluate the HSRL project and provide their inputs..

HSRL has become a political gimmick and a fav stmt for political speeches..let there be a stop to it and let the right capable authorities decide on whats good  for this city..

As Praja met Mr Gaurav Gupta and his team from BMLTA and have found his team very capable of taking the right decissions..

Its just upto the govt to listen to them!

Sanjeev's picture

Zip to Airport

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Its good news that finally BMLTA  will be absolute authority on Bangalore Traffic.   Regarding the  HSRL,  their were so many open ends in the project sanction by State Govt.

1. Viability Project Gap funding from Center to the tune of 20%,  have the Center agreed on this ( cost will be approximatly rs 1100 Crore ).  Any idea about Center has agreed to pump tyhis much money????

2. Underground section at Airforce Station Yelahanaka, nothis decided.

3. HSRL project report says Total Land required only 66 Hectares,  that means  whatere land  which has been acquired by BBMP or BDA for road widening at huge cost is to be considered as free for this.  This will spoil further already congested roads on Bellary road.

4. Project is going through an alignment change, due to BIA is keen on expansion of aiprot for Terminal -2,  re-aligning it to the new terminal in the process as on Jan'2010 Then this has to go  for approval and once cost will further go-up

5. With recent project approval by NHAI for the Bellary Road on PPP model with Toll collection,  now HSRL need to look into it as the land is owned by NHAI  from Hebbal.

6. What about services to  office goers, shoppers and others enroute and beyond Aiport as lot of  projects with IT park beeing planned.

7. The private investor would expect some assurance from the government that they don't build any parallel infra as in case with BIAL (where the HAL airport was asked to be shut down) ,they may ask govt to sign a clause which says no development of parallel infra (like govt has an obligation they can't build anything along expressway on hosur hence METRO is not considered there in phase 2)  This type of clause will make monopoly  from the Private player.

All this will take minimum 4-5 years to get the HSRL in place  considering  all the hurdels are removed and METRO, MonoRail connectivity  rae going to be in place to support HSRL.  Till such time  all of us keep on suffering with mute spectators.

If one has to catch the HSRL  at 2 places ( Yelahanak does not make sense  as pasangers will prefer to go directly to aiprot from their Door Step in Yelahanak. ),  the they need to spend minimum Rs 100 to Rs 200 to reach these two points if they come by Auto & Rs 400 by Taxi with 30-40  Minitues.  With this type of arrangment  how Passangers will prefer the HSRL with total cost going more then Rs 600 to 800 with more then one Hr to reach airport. 

Its really makes sense  to have Cummetr Rail system with High Speed train of speed 80-100 Kms with Fast Train and Slow Train ( as being in Mumbai ). Fast Train will meet the so Aiprot Passanger Traffic need & slow train will meet other pasangers needs. Hoping BMLTA takes proper decision on this and saves all of us from this so called Private Monoploy ( already Monoploy on Hosur Road, International Aiprot, NICE )

srinidhi's picture

HSRL bhootha resurfaces..

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<repeat>...sorry!

Ravi_D's picture

Today's HSRL news

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From today's DH, typical announcements:

Work to begin by Feb '11.

Ready by Dec '13.

Apart from HSRL mono is back in the news too.

srinidhi's picture

Monorail route differs..

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from the one proposed by Scomi..the one reported is more on the lines of the CTTP..but may be thats just the work of over zealous reporters!

Did some one say DPR II says the metro wud start from around Kattriguppe? Wow..that place is gonna become a unique hub..metro..mono..what else?!

This more sounds like CM's many biscuits that he throws out..there are many instances of it during his term!

It was with the Tata's where he said they would be made to have his plant in Kar..it went to Guj

Houses for the flood hit people was another fiasco..he collected money and they are still homeless and rains are gonna start soon

Plans to improve power situation is another instance..

The recent was the fiasco on IPL venue being shifted..he was assuring that he will work with BCCI

Nothing happens..its all bag of hot air..even if it happens..its only for kickbacks!

BETL is crying for patrons..so will HSRL! 

srinidhi's picture

HSRL sawaal?

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The Karnataka High Court on Thursday ruled out High Speed Rail Link (HSRL) construction near Hebbal lake.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/73290/hc-rules-hsrl-near-hebbal.html

Btw if we are talking of super development of the Devanahalli region with the info coming from the GIM..

IT parks (ITIR 1000 acres)

Jewelry park

Finance Hub

Aerospace Hub etc

Why are we still not looking at a metro like structure..why still the exclusive airport train!?

What will these organizations/areas get for public transport? 

idontspam's picture

 Why are we still not looking

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 Why are we still not looking at a metro like structure..

Because Metro is only for the city and cannot be laid for suburban regions, law prevents it. Being a radial city, greenfield lines in all directions will involve acquisitions and be expensive. Commuter Rail is the answer. The Yeshwantpur->Chickballapur train will cover ITIR. See routes being proposed by Praja here

 

Sanjeev's picture

Commuter Rail is a good option for BIAL

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State Govt should  take Commuter Rail for BIAL seriously as the cost factor  and area coverage is very good in Commuter rail. Also time factor, even after two years of opening BIAL, we are still struggling for good affordable public transport to BIAL. This Commuter Rail can be started in full fledge  within 3 months if the Chief Minister & IDD  do their good  work with Indian railways.

HSRL will be huge burden on State Govt later and cost of travell by HSRL will keep on going every year by 10-15%.

Also following projects are planned arround Devanahalli :

IT parks (ITIR 1000 acres)

Jewelry park

Finance Hub

Aerospace Hub

Govt Medical Hospital and College at Devanhalli

Devanhalli Business Park ( DBP ) on 400 acer on PPP next to BIAL

KSRTC mobility hub arround Trumpet  Interchange with Hotels

Sports complex near Chikaballapur

Logestic Hub near BIAL ( location not known )

idontspam's picture

Just to be clear while

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Just to be clear while Commuter Rail can be used for all imaginable purposes, the rationale for Commuter rail is to connect surrounding growth centers to Bangalore within approx 1 hour travel time on existing/enhanced tracks so that people can enjoy the comforts of working/entertaining in Bangalore and still stay in the suburbs which provides relatively cheaper housing. The idea is to go back to encouraging density around train stations. Check out how stations and facilities are being built in Mumbai (ex Harbour line).

 

Sanjeev's picture

Update on HSRL & Opening of Delhi Airport Link by Sept'2010

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Centre rejects State plea on rail link to BIA as Equity Participation : 

The Centre has rejected the Karnataka Government’s request for equity participation in the proposed high-speed rail link between the Bangalore city centre and the Bangalore International Airport (BIA).

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/86970/centre-rejects-state-plea-rail.html

This means now state has to get the VGF 20% at any cost from Center  to get the project going. Also Delay in project execution and Cost escalation. 

Here is update on Delhi Airport Express Link : 

This  will be opened by Sept'2010 for Commenwealth Games.

The Airport Express Line will start from New Delhi railway station and terminate at Dwarka via IGI Airport. There will be three stops — Shivaji Terminus, Dhaula Kuan and National Highway-8. The fare to IGI has been kept at a maximum of Rs 150 and commuters will have to pay an additional Rs 30 to go to Dwarka, with a provision for monthly passes.
rains on the showcase Airport Metro Express line in Delhi will run at a speed of 120 km per hour, for which a consortium led by Reliance Infrastructure is imparting training to drivers, including psychological profiling to test their emotional stability.

The Airport Express Line, which will be run by Delhi Airport Metro Express Limited led by Reliance Infrastructure, promises to take passengers from Connaught Place to the IGI Airport in 20 minutes and will be thrown open to public by September, a month before the Commonwealth Games

India’s first Metro line to come up on a public-private -partnership mode, the 22-km corridor will have City Airport Terminals at three stations from where passengers can directly check-in. The ticket rate from Connaught Place to airport has been fixed at Rs 150.

With just little over a month left for commissioning of the line, the company is imparting special training to 24 drivers as they have to operate trains at a speed of 120 km per hour, which will be a first in India. Metro trains in Delhi run at an average speed of 35-40 kms per hour.

http://voteupindia.com/new-delhi-metro-station-will-be-like-a-mini-airport/

Details of the Project :

The proposed 23 km of high speed metro rail line project envisages development of India’s first Airport Link that will operate at high speed of 130 kmph. It will have six stations - New Delhi, Shivaji Stadium, Dhaula Kuan, NH8, IGI Airport and Dwarka. The express metro line alignment will run underground, elevated and at-grade with five underground and one elevated stations

The project provides unique facilities to the air passenger of remote check-in with baggage check-in, at three stations - New Delhi, Shivaji Stadium and Dhaula Kuan. Also, for the first time in the country, all stations would be air-conditioned having platform screen doors. The airport line would be fully integrated with the existing DMRC metro network at New Delhi and Dwarka. The line would also be integrated with the Northern Railway New Delhi Station and with the IGI Airport. All these integrations would ensure very smooth passenger interchange. The main sources of revenue shall be from ticket sales and retail activities at the stations, advertisements, and commercial development at Dwarka Depot.

http://www.relianceinsider.com/2009/03/reliance-infra-delhi-airport-metro-express-achieves-financial-closure2286/

Here the Delhi Airport Link   advantages :

1. Line runs upto Dwaraka after IGI for better catchment area

2. It will have six stations - New Delhi, Shivaji Stadium, Dhaula Kuan, NH8, IGI Airport and Dwarka.

3. Check-in  facility at New Delhi, Shivaji Stadium and Dhaula Kuan

 

4.  Its well integrated with METRO at   New Delhi and Dwaraka

5. Located adjacent to the Ajmeri Gate entry of New Delhi Railway Station of Indain Railway, the station is expected to come up as a major interchange between rail and air travel in near future. As per

6. Four Platform at New Delhi, two for arrival and two for departure  at different levels.

Here you can see how well integrated with METRO and Indian Railways.

We do't know what is the fate of HSRL and slow progress of  NAMMA METRO.

Sanjeev's picture

Greens up in arms against rail link to BIA

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Earlier for Metro rail, they said that they were going to axe around 400 trees. But they ended up axing 3,000 trees. Now, the detailed project report (DPR) for HSRL says that 371 trees are going to be axed. Finally, the number will be beyond this,” said environmental activist Vinay Sreenivasa of environmental group Hasiru Usiru

http://expressbuzz.com/cities/bangalore/greens-up-in-arms-against-rail-link-to-bia/195930.html

Sreenivasa kindly keep track of how many trees will be axed finally  for this project.

This Naveen thread has completed one year and keep counting on the delay of HSRL

This is how our Govt or Officals wants to work , if the project was really needed by now  this could have taken off with flying colours.

Naveen's picture

HSRL - Not Urgent

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Sanjeev,

Expensive infra projects such as HSRL are not going to materialize soon after conception anywhere. Putrajaya's & Djakarta's monorails, Algiers Metro, expansion of Seattle monorail, etc have all undergone debates & severe delays to mention a few overseas projects. Let's not blame our state govt for this since these are hugely expensive projects & need sufficient & rigorous project evaluation, debates & financing options, etc.

Further, with the present air traffic, HSRL might not really be warranted soon, but will become a necessity when air traffic goes up. I think we should actually support the authorities for having come up with this & to pro-actively think & plan well ahead rather than blame them for delays, as an exception.

The greens may keep a tally of trees that are being felled or are likely to be cut, but they do not seem to have any alternatives for the worsening road conditions & traffic or for quick airport connection in the future without road use when volumes & traffic increase. Only when they suggest alternative solutions for both will they be better heard.

Sanjeev's picture

Delay is at what cost, DMRC has estimated 25 Lakhs per day

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As per DMRC DPR report on Executive summary of page 27

Each day the project is delayed the cost will go up by Rs.25.0 lakhs due to inflation alone. Further each day the loss of revenue from the project will be Rs.37 lakhks. The price for delays in decision making will be obvious from this.

 http://www.ksiidc.com/hsrl.html  

This news article  says in Nov'2009, GoK will  announce bidder who will take up this HSRL project. Here they say all approvals from GoI were taken,

http://www.ppp.ap.gov.in/UploadedFiles/Media_Coverage/21122009-BloreHighSpeedRailLink.PDF

but  in the above thread last week of DH VGF is still to be approved by GoI where PM  will take call on    VGF amount of Rs 1200  crore.

I do agree with Naveen where big projects will need long  period to get going. But this project  has been started since 2007 and BIAL aiport work was started way back 2005 on the basis to have  better Airport . That means we have gone past 6 yrs on Airport and nearly 4 yrs on HSRL, still bidder need to be selected. Then next 3 yrs for construction.

Now HSRL project costing   4 times the cost of BIAL project.  And further delay every day will cost . 

If GoK is serious, then they should put serious efforts with good intention or we could have had Local Trains by  now at the cost Rs 200 crore to BIAL aiport which we have missed but still GoK makes mind will happen in 6 - 12 months

Who is feeling the pinch, its after all  Air passengers  paying  heavy price for  Taxi & Airport workers paying  high cost BMTC passes Rs 2000 /- PM. People leaving along the NH-7 feeling the Traffic problems???

silkboard's picture

How does IDD/Madhu's team prioratize projects?

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Every govt dept is busy. A group of 10-15 people can only do so many projects at a time. Management practices say that success comes better by chasing 2-3 goals at a time, than going after 10-15.

All of us need to ask IDD, and every other department that has been throwing projects after project on us without showing progress or deep thinking on the full list of things that they have to do. Picking on IDD, what are their top 3 projects right now?

And in their list of 40-50, how does HSRL make the cut into top 3.

We pay for their time, it is only valid for us to ask after how they use it, and how they pick their priorities.

I don't want to get into an argument for or against HSRL. I simply want to ask IDD on what projects are they NOT spending time on eac htime they give HSRL some time.

Vasanth's picture

Hopefully HSRL does not become like Vayu Vajra

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Vayu Vajra was started dedicated for BIAL passengers, unfortunately due to lack of customers, it was opened to public travelling within the city, just not the airport.

Hopefully, HSRL will not become like that. We may need a backout plan for the ability to convert it into Metro in case if it flops since such a huge investment will go into toss.

idontspam's picture

 Hopefully, HSRL will not

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 Hopefully, HSRL will not become like that

I actually think it will become like that. An expensive limited stop metro. If I can reach from MG road to Hebbal in 5 mins or to Yelahanka in 10 mins. I will pay a 150 bucks & take it. It will be like living in church street. No auto/taxi goes to Yelahanka in Rs150, definitely not in 10 mins. It makes no sense to prevent people from taking a bus or train stopping at their origin and destination just because the ride has a theme/skin to it. 30 years down the line when the airport gets 30 million pax it may be uncomfortable to do so because of the crowd.

srinidhi's picture

more stops?

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More stops on the way probably will add a max of 1-2 minutes per stop..so if we have 3-4 more stops on the way..this will cater to wider public..

we can have non-stop trips on the same line with trains getting faster to the airport..this looks like a win-win situation..

Again..its high time we consider underground at least till palace grounds from mg rd..MG road already looks messed up with the reach 1 elevated rail..lets not spoil more..

idontspam's picture

I agree

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 .its high time we consider underground at least till palace grounds from mg rd

Amen... but it will be like adding an extra trunk and 4 more super thick legs to the white elephant. 

Vinay's picture

A big dig?

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"its high time we consider underground at least till palace grounds from mg rd"

If we're going to have a big dig like that, they better run the Namma Metro down there. The millions of residents who will benefit from the metro running on Bellary road dwarfs the benefits of running an HSRL. Metro takes priority over HSRL - that's what the motto should be. Metro is a necessity for the dwellers of the city who will use it for their daily commute, thereby bringing down traffic congestion, pollution, and a whole lot of other things.

From palace grounds onwards, the metro can run above ground (elevated, since at-grade will 'divide' the grounds). After the end of palace grounds, the train just crosses over to the opposite side, where we have the HQTC, Indian Air Force,(land acquisition will presumably be relatively smooth here). Then, the UAS campus starts - which again has no structures, but lots of greenery. Sadly, a bit of greenery will have to be given up, and I am all for giving up that greenery for the Metro, but not the HSRL.

So , the entire path from Vasanthnagar to Hebbal has vast stretches of land - much easier to construct here than tangle with the CMH-trader types. Giving up this to HSRL is insanity - metro first please.


idontspam's picture

Whats in a name?

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 Metro takes priority over HSRL

I dont see much difference in them. They are both trains. One probably built to run a little faster with lesser curves and a more powerful rolling stock. Lesser stops more distance helps add HS to the name.

Vinay's picture

As long as the primary purpose is served...

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As long as it serves the daily-commute public in Hebbal, Sadashivanagar, Vasanthnagar, Sanjaynagar, R.T.Nagar, Jayamahal, MunireddyPalya and all the other high-density areas around Bellary road, I don't care if they call it metro or HSRL or whatever springs to mind.

But my understanding of the original HSRL plan is that it involved only three stops - one at Hebbal, one at Yelahanka and one at the Airport. If they add more stops and make it like a metro, I would be happy. But the number of stops I'm talking about is far from their original plan. My desire is to see something on the lines of: one at Hebbal (near existing railway station), one near CBI road UAS campus, one at Mekhri circle, one at Cauvery theatre, one at Vasanthnagar junction towards Mount Carmel.

If they plan for these stops, and persist in calling it 'HSRL', I'd be equally happy. Whatever works :-)


Sanjeev's picture

Funding for the proposed High Speed Rail Link (HSRL) project

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The funding for the proposed High Speed Rail Link (HSRL) project, which will connect the city centre and the Bengaluru International Airport (BIA), is still uncertain as two members of the Bangalore International Airport Limited (BIAL) consortium are unsure of investing in the project costing Rs 5,700 crore.
The state government, which is planning to commence work on the 34-kilometre rail link from MG Road to the airport at Devanahalli by next year, wants the members of the BIAL consortium to be equity partners. But two members have already said that they do not want to bear the project costs.
GVK Power and Infrastructure Limited, which has 29 per cent stake in BIAL, said that the state government had asked it to bear some part of the project cost. But it had said that it would do so only if it got some returns.
G V Krishna Reddy, chairman, GVK Power and Infrastructure Limited and vice-chairman of BIAL Board, said that the government had placed a proposal before the company and that it was willing to be part of the project, if it could get returns from the investment it made on the project.
“We have asked the government if we will get returns for the investment. But the government does not have an answer to this,” said Reddy.
http://bangalorebuzz.blogspot.com/2010/08/high-speed-rail-link-project-hits.html

If this is the state of project, then what is that our planners & DMRC have worked out project vaibility  study. without getting  BIAL  managment.

Even the VGF of Rs 1200 crore by center and Land cost of Rs 550 crore by state to be provided at free of cost  to PPP partner without expecting any returns for next 30 yrs.  What does this mean  interms of    concession ( Subsidy ) per passenger using HSRL.  With net interest @8% PA on Rs 1750 crore means Rs 140 crore / PA  ( Rs 40 Lakhs per day ) govt will be providing  as concession to Airport passengers / Airport workers.

Now by taking traffic projection  for HSRL as per DPR of DMRC, concession  per passenger  works out to be Rs  600 for  2011-16,  Rs 360 between 2016-2020 and Rs 200 -250 for the next  20 yrs.

Does Karnatak state or Bangalore can afford to provide so much concession  ????

 

srinidhi's picture

Bangkok does it..can we too?

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Bangkok is running a city line and an express train on the same tracks..one does the journey with limited stops in 15 min and the other does it with 8 stops in 30 min..

http://www.bangkokairporttrain.com/index.html

These trains are starting today and the express train is supposed to have CAT like whats planned for Blr..

Guess this is the best way to do it for Blr too!

http://www.cnngo.com/bangkok/visit/transporation-faceoff-362693?hpt=C2

Vasanth's picture

London has, Heathrow Express, Underground and Heathrow Connect

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London Heathrow too has got Non-Stop Heathrow which is quite expensive at 18 pounds which covers in 15 mins, Heathrow Connect with 5-6 stops at around 6 Pounds which covers distance in 30 mins and London Underground which covers distance in an hour.

I personally feel that HSRL is going to become white elephant for the operator unless airlines give offers as free HSRL ticket. People will continue with Vayu Vajras / Taxis during non-peak hours. During peak hours, due to congestion and chances of people missing flight, people may use HSRL. All depends on the fare strucuture comparing to Taxi fares. More like Heathrow connect is needed so that the investment can sustain with people working or living in Yelahanka / Sanjaynagar / RT Nagar / Hebbal can also use this infrastructure.

Naveen's picture

Fast airport train will be a necessity

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London Heathrow too has got Non-Stop Heathrow which is quite expensive at 18 pounds which covers in 15 mins, Heathrow Connect with 5-6 stops at around 6 Pounds which covers distance in 30 mins and London Underground which covers distance in an hour.

London has three different types of rail connections, in addition to umpteen buses plying from the city centre. Many European airports also have multiple airport rail connections.

BIAL is a growing airport & is much further than most airports are from city centre. KL airport is perhaps the only one that is similar in distance from city centre, & it already has a dedicated airport train.

So, why are we still debating if we need a fast dedicated airport train or not ? Considering the distance from city, a fast train is what is needed for the future. If we try to make it "more viable" by increasing the no. of stations & slowing down the train, we will ruin the service when demand will increase with air traffic growth.

For commuters to Yelahanka, the Metro route to Nagawara might be extended beyond to Yelahanka, or even further. If the two services are attempted to be "combined" to cater to both, it will not serve the purpose for air passengers well. Though investments seem on the high side now, it will make sense later, for sure.

srinidhi's picture

..or do the Bangkok way?

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 There is no doubt that there is a need for a fast transport to the airport..its needed now and will be useful in the future too...

However, considering we are a populous state..we can also go the Bangkok way..

Have a city line which has more stops with 30 min travel time and an airport express which is non stop taking 15 min..all on the same tracks..

The Suwarnabhumi airport is also about 28 Kms from city centre..

If Bangkok is able to do it..why not us?!

idontspam's picture

trains or jams

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 Or we can have more than one like most other cities. Commuter Rail + HSRL + Metro + mono or whatever as long as they serve different catchment areas via different alignments

Whatever the way, we should realize trains are needed to keep our sanity else we will be stuck in 100 mile, 9 day long jams. I am sure this now famous chinese traffic jam will be quoted for a long time to come. It holds lessons. Will we learn?

Sanjeev's picture

How HSRL commuters can take METRO

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Sorry, no bulky luggage on metro

The draft Bangalore Metro Rail (Carriage and Ticket) Rules 2010 limit the weight of personal baggage to 15 kg. Rule 3 says: “No person shall, while travelling in metro railway, carry with him any goods other than a small baggage containing personal belongings not exceeding 60 cm by 45 cm by 25 cm in size and 15 kg in weight, except with the prior approval of the metro railway administration.”

Integration with airport

This rule comes at a time when there is a proposal to integrate Namma Metro with the proposed High Speed Rail Link to the international airport at the BRV Parade Grounds. The average free baggage allowed by various airlines is 20 kg per passenger, while the limit fixed for Namma Metro is 15 kg per passenger.

http://www.hindu.com/2010/10/21/stories/2010102161650300.htm

This means only hand baggage air passangers should switch over from HSRL to METRO at Parade Ground and rest should use other modes of Transport. What about the Mono Rail carrage proposal.  In such case where is the integration between METRO & HSRL

Hope the Govt officials should take care and do not mess up.

idontspam's picture

Commuter rail will have no such problems

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In such case where is the integration between METRO & HSRL

Commuter rail will have no such problems. Its heavy rail and if HSRL integrated with the Hebbal/Yelahanka Commuter rail station it will get captive audience from Bangarpet, Hosur, Ramanagaram, Tumkur etc who will prefer train instead of the thousands of rupees on Taxi from where they live.

Our intelligensia do not want to talk about this though. Lots of sustainable conferences happening around these days with not a mention of this 200km coverage possibility, instead they wax eloquent about a 7.5km system

srinidhi's picture

what is the reason for weight limit?

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 Is it in anticipation that Bangloreans will use the train as a goods train or is it security reasons?

What ever it is, I do not think these limits make any sense..I have traveled in metros else where and there is no such restriction..I have even made trips to the international airport with the two heavy check-in bags and the cabin bag along with a laptop and there were no eyebrows raised..

If its security, shouldnt scanners be mandatory to check all bags anyways?

What are we trying to do with blr metro?

idontspam's picture

Legalese probably

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These restrictions are not usually enforced unless it causes a distrubance which obstructs the flow of passengers or the trains. They need something to fall back on in case they need to evict somebody/something causing unreasonable problems to smooth ops.

Sanjeev's picture

Why can't they charge the amont for the higher weight luggage

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As in the case of BMTC / KSRTC / Indian Railways,  extra luggage are charged and allowed for the passangers to carry the luggage along with them.

As IDS mentioned Commuter Rail will not have such restrictions on weight luggage carrying, this will be good option for the long distance passangers tarvelling from Bidadi, Kengeri, Anekal, Electronic City, Hosur, Bangarpet, Tumkur, Doddballpur to Aiport to catch either HSRL at Yelahanka / Hebbal.

Simple solutions where money does not play its part will not b disussed  in most of the forums.  As Local Trains of Mumbai , Hyderabad are success story in Indian Railways ( due to pricing policy from politics, not able to make profit ) for Urban Transport,  our planers do not want to replicate them in other cities, but wants fancy thing where money makes them dance.

 

idontspam's picture

HSRL Alignment

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Some suggestions here to make the white elephant more black/gray.

My 2 paise for coloring the elephant. Why cant the high speed track run along the SWR tracks from Devanahalli to EC/Anekal? It will serve the IT crowd which use the airport? Instead of going along Channasandra route it can touch Hebbal.They can put an elevated bypass near Lottegollahalli to join the YPR/HSR line at the ORR junction. This way they can have stops at Yelahanka, Hebbal, Benninganahalli, Marathahalli, Karmelaram, Chandapura & Anekal. Or after Karmelaram it can go to EC/Jigani instead of Chandapura/Anekal. More coverage, more distance, better catchment of potential crowd. They can build a Metro/HSRL interchange at Benninganahalli on the whitefield route or put a travelator/PRT to BYP metro station.

Naveen's picture

HSRL not for urban commuters

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The questions raised about the airport HSRL to also serve the 'common man' (ie. daily urban commuters) in the TOI article seems quite out of context. The airport being too far, it certainly will need a fast, dedicated system to cater to air passengers /airport employees & others working at DBP, etc at some stage, & the progress with the system so far is a positive development, in my opinion.

As regards the route, MG Rd parade grounds seems appropriate since Majestic is congested & it might be impractical to route it there. The TOI article talks of phase-1. Thus, the supposition is that it would be extended later, possibly upto Shantinagar, Jayanagar /JPNagar or Silkboard, or even further, which will become necessary later, anyway.

Routing it along existing SWR lines will mean skirting it around the eastern part of the city. This will make it very inconvenient for those on the west.

idontspam's picture

East meets west at Hebbal

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 Routing it along existing SWR lines will mean skirting it around the eastern part of the city. This will make it very inconvenient for those on the west.

Even current alignment to MG road doesnt serve west, but isnt east enough to address the catchment in the east. Hebbal is west enough for people in the west. I am sure the south feels everything far off and will take MG road anyday. On the other hand I would rather a commuter rail address the segment than trying to parade this elephant all around Bangalore.

Sanjeev's picture

Why do you call High Speed Rail when this can not cross 80Kms

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Planned HSRL is not even High Speed as operating speed will not cross .80 Kms / Hr. Even Shatabdi of IR runs at 150 Kms between Delhi and Bhopal

Best thing would be METRO with slow Train and Fast Train by converting planned IIM-B to Yelahanka Phase-2 METRO and extending the same to BIAL.

Some where arround MG road  could have been bigger integration with Phase-1 of METRO connecting Kengeri to Biyappanhalli.

Also to connect West Yesvantpur, Hebbal and ITPL &  EC  to BIAL  by  Commuter Rail.

Imagine the plight of Kanakpura Road, Jayanagr  and Banashankari all phases  will have to spend more moner and time to reach BIAL even after METRO & planned HSRL alignment.

Yesvantpur is connected to BIAL using SWR track under commuter rail, then, passangers can reach Yesvantpur  by METRO from  Kanakpur Road, Jayanagar and catch Commuter.  EC , ITPL  can take commuter rail to reach BIAL

For the People of  Bannerghatta Road,  Koramangala,  MG Road, Commercial Street, Nagavara can take METRO phase-2  directily upto BIAL. with  Fast  METRO. 

This way BMRCL can operate Fast Metro as Airport Express as alternative Trains and slow METRO to stop all staions.  Similarly Commuter Rail to BIAL can be Fast and Slow  so that Travell time is saved  by using Fast commuter Rail by stopping at Major stations.

Major IT centers are at ITPL, EC and Manyat Tech Park. G Road  If they are not conencted properly with BIAL,  then what ever planned

srinidhi's picture

Metro PH 2 impact on HSRL!

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 Yes Sanjeev, the metro ph2 route should play a very important role in the route for HSRL..

It will be really foolish if they work in silos and implement total redundancy!

What was the reason that the HSRL was designated to start from MG road? It was access to the metro lines..as mentioned by Naveen above..

If that is the case..what prevents us from moving the HSRL station(if we are still bent on implementing it) to Nagavara..wherever the ph 2 ends!

aravindas's picture

Run normal trains to Airport

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Both High Speed Rail Link and Metro to BIAL is an expensive proposition that costs billions of tax dollars.   I do not think not more than 2% of Bangalore's/Karnataka State's  population would be using the Airport in a given week. Using up such a huge chunk of budget just of less than 2% of the population, in my opinion is not justifiable. 

At the same time we already have the rail-road infrastructure passing through Devanahalli.  I would suggest State Government should discuss with Indian railways and start running dedicated trains to Devanahalli.   I identified three routes

1.  From Bellandur- Vartur - Baiyappana Halli-Banasawadi-Kodige Halli-Yelahanka-Devanahalli
2.  Whitefield - KR PUram - Yelahanka - Devanahalli
3.  Bangalore City - Yeshavant Pur - Yelahanka - Devanaghalli

 

However the pre-requisite would be

1. providing separate Air-Terminals in all these railway stations with Baggage check-in facility wherein passengers can through check-in theri baggages from these points.  All airlines must open a ticketing/baggage counter at these locations.

2. Providing dedicated/frequent(every 5 minutes)/safe bus connection between Devanahalli Railway station and Airport

This would save lot of money which can be utilized in other development activities.

Thank you,
Aravinda

 

Sanjeev's picture

State wants build 8th Horror for Bangalore & white elephant

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Its true that this HSRL will not benefit  majority public who will be travelling arround Bangalore.

Following will have impact on HSRL :

1.  METRO Ph-2 IIM-B to Nagavara / Yelahanaka will have greater Impact on HSRL

2. Opening of Eastern side of BIAL boundry for BBMP road from Nagavara will take off the Eastern side of Traffic to BIAL

3. What will be impact of 4 lane Express Highway from Hebbal to BIAL on HSRL

4. In future, what ever Indian Railway / SWR runs Trains to Devanhalli / Chikballapur from all parts of Bangalore will be deterant to HSRL usage.

5. Considering Travell time and cost to reach either Hebbal / MG road by what ever mode of Transport  and fare of HSRL will have final  say in catchment of Passangers.

6. Cost of Inflation of construction &  Operating cost  which will be going up over the roof will make Ticket fares un-attractive for Passangers.

In the above  circumstances, GoK will have to fork subsidy to Air Passengers to use HSRL  White Elephant

As Bangalore has not even got the Phase-1  of METRO and which will happen may be after 2014 & what will be budget support??

Also their is phase-2 Metro will need another Rs 15000 crore with Inflation Index.

God only can save Bangalore form 8th Horror  & 7th Horror was Electronic city Elevated Highway.

Note : Yesvantpur - Nelamangal Express Highway is really well planned & nicely executed except good number of Foot over Bridges with cycle to use. 

 

kbsyed61's picture

@Arvindas, CRS best positioned!

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Arvindas,

Your recommendation for regular train service does aligns with PRAJA/CISTUP action report on Bengaluru Commuter Rail Service. The Airport and other destinations are well covered in the proposal. Pls do read the Bengaluru Commuter Rail - Call to Action - Reprint 2.pdf

You may also read more on this @ http://praja.in/en/nammarailu

 

Vasanth's picture

HSRL should connect CBD / Downtown Bangalore

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As Naveen says, HSRL should connect to CBD or downtown Bengaluru  if started. This is how every city does. Majestic is an ideal option. Majestic / MG Road is like 30-45 minutes from southern areas like JP Nagar 7th Phase and Banashankari whereas after reaching Hebbal we could as well reach BIAL since it takes 15-20 minutes from Hebbal to BIAL.

Again, for the Eastern Portion or the IT belt, we will have signal free Ring Road from Silkboard to Hebbal. People of IT folks who often use Taxis / Limos can utilize this. Again, an alternative BRT from Silkboard to Hebbal on this signal free corridor  will reduce the travel time for Vayu Vajra too. From Hebbal to BIAL also we could have BRT.

Commuter Rail would cover the distance @ 50 mins at mere Rupees 7:

Code Station Name Arrives Departs Halt Day# Km Speed Elev Zone Address
SBC» Bangalore City Junction»   18:00   1 0   903m SWR Bengaluru, Karnataka
MWM Malleswaram 18:04 18:05 1m 1 3 45 916m SWR Bengaluru, Karnataka
YPR Bangalore Yesvantpur Junction 18:09 18:10 1m 1 6 45 919m SWR Bengaluru, Karnataka
LOGH Lottegollahalli 18:14 18:15 1m 1 9 45 912m SWR Bengaluru, Karnataka
KDGH Kodigehalli 18:19 18:20 1m 1 12 45 912m SWR Bengaluru, Karnataka
YNK Yelahanka Junction 18:32 18:34 2m 1 17 25 915m SWR Bengaluru, Karnataka
TLS Bettahalsoor 18:40 18:42 2m 1 24 70 923m SWR Bengaluru, Karnataka
DJL Dodajala Lake 18:47 18:48 1m 1 29 60 902m   Hosur Rd, Karnataka
DHL• Devanhalli• 18:52 18:54 2m 1 39 150 888m   Hosur Rd, Karnataka
AVT Avati 18:57 18:59 2m 1 46 140 922m   Avati, Karnataka
NDY Nandi Halt 19:07 19:09 2m 1 56 75 932m SWR , Karnataka
CBP Chik Ballapur 19:50     1 62 9 921m SWR Chik Ballapur, Karnataka

 

 

Naveen's picture

Suburban Rail for BIAL

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See this blog for Suburban rail connectivity to BIAL.

ashok_n's picture

HSRL ; white elephant

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@Sanjeev,

I totally agree with you. HSRL is going to be a white elephant that generations of Bangaloreans are going to rue.

There is one more addition to the list: the proposed PRR, the South--> East-->North section of the circle. Admittedly, nothing is moving on this crucial project but if and when it comes to fruition, this will complete the PRR circle and will be the most convenient route to BIAL from anywhere outside the current ORR circle.

Who would want to spend 1+ hr going to downtown Bangalore and switch over to HSRL? More convenient would be a Volvo BIAL bus with no switchover. 

Also, I think Bangalore downtown is over-hyped. More businesses, hotels (which are an indicator of where businesses are moving) are coming up on the eastern ORR and whitefield areas. There was a news report in the TOI that commercial properties in the CBD are seeing stagnant or falling rentals.

@Govt, if you have 7000 crores to burn, please use it for the much needed PRR.

rs's picture

Has the government done any

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Has the government done any survey to actually see if people would use HSRL ? It seems to me that it is a monumental waste of taxpayers money. The construction will take several years and will destroy the beauty of Central Bangalore. Apart from the 100s of trees that will be cut - have they thought of the impact of the noise of a train travelling at 200 km through Raj Bhavan Road ? 

The 7000 - which I am sure will go up to at least 10000 crores would better be spent on developing footpaths and Majestic bust stand. While the proposed HSRL is supposed to cater to a possible increase to about 20 million people per annum  in the Airport from the current 10 million - Majestic bus stand deals with 1 million people PER DAY - and nothing has been done to improve their lot.

This stupid project should be shelved at any cost. Though I have absolutely no idea how it can be done - and no hope - thanks to the tremendous corruption in this state - that it will ever happen.

 

Ramesh

 

srinidhi's picture

HSRL for investment belt around BIA?!!

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 The area around the airport is now almost a sub-city to Bangalore. Chief minister's high power committee has approved an approximate Rs 1.15 lakh crore worth investments so far. The business park at Devanahalli has also been agreed to in principle. Once all these investments are fructified, it's estimated that one million people will be employed here and HSRL will have large number of travellers to this investment belt there. BIA passengers will constitute just 25-26%," Principal secretary (infrastructure) V Madhu said on Thursday. 


more here

Wasnt HSRL exclusive for BIA users?? and now airport is projected to provide just a quarter of the ridership expected for HSRL??

HSRL..it looks like catering to a bunch of convoluted mindless thoughts!

If its mainly for the investment region..a.k.a industries..who would want to pay a premium for public transport??

Then I suppose costing will need to get reworked..if it will be..then it will not be viable for a PPP..think this will die a slow death!

 

s_yajaman's picture

4 hrs check-in at Delhi Airport Express?

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 http://www.indianexpress.com/news/airport-metro-baggage-may-have-to-be-checked-in-four-hours-before-flight/745332/2

"Some bad news for commuters looking forward to taking the Airport Metro Express Line; they just might be in for a long wait after their baggage is checked in at Metro stations. While the Delhi Airport Metro Express Private Limited (DAMEPL), the concessionaire operating the line, maintained that baggage check-in can be done only two-and-a-half hours before the flight departure, sources said the task may have to be completed four hours prior to that."

Hopefully this is not true.  Else it defeats the purpose of the HSRL for passengers with check in baggage.  Why would I take it if I have to leave home more than 4 hrs before the flight vs. 2 hrs today?  

Srivathsa 

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

s_yajaman's picture

Reliance washes its hands off Delhi Airport Link

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Just read that Reliance has expressed its inability to operate the Delhi Airport Metro Express.  The ridership was simply not coming through (10000 per day vs. 40000 assumed in the DPR) and also non-fare related revenues were not materializing.  DMRC has taken over operations but the question remains on who will repay the debt of Rs.2000 cr.  DAME was reportedly losing Rs.1 cr per day. 

Delhi IGI handles about 100,000 passengers per day and the highest ridership the Airport Express had was 20,000 per day. 

Also interesting to see Mr.Sreedharan's comment that PPP in Urban Transport project does not work.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/NewDelhi/Sreedharan-had-predicted-doom/Article1-1084160.aspx

If so - why was he pushing this HSRL which if I'm not mistaken was also to be built via PPP?

Srivathsa

 

 

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

srinidhi's picture

Sreedharan, a visionary?

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I would say hes just about a very good engineer..

I was reading the other day that his first major project, Konkan railway, though an engineering marvel, is also bleeding to this day..

At that point when he was seeing the Delhi Airport Express works going well, guess his thoughts were PPP was the magic bullet..cos he had already drained out the govt coffers with the other lines of Delhi metro..so he worked on the same lines for Hyd metro too..

Guess it was not too difficult for him to realize the imminent failure looming, earlier than others, to change his tracks..

btw I was thinking 10K ridership numbers still sound good..though 1/4th of the estimate..unlike the toy train numbers for blr metro..

 

Naveen's picture

DAME was always a dead duck

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Yeah - another example of over-estimation of ridership levels that drove construction of capital-hungry exclusive track systems (Kolkata Metro & Chennai MRTS were others).

However, Delhi metro is on the path of increasing ridership manifold, whereas DAME was a dead duck to start with a single-valued outcome (i.e. exclusive system for airport) which was bound to suffer. I think the only solution now is to extend the line to hook up with the Dwarka metro line & operate it as another normal metro line (with more stations inbetween), but then there are already other DMRC line/s that have not picked up yet - so, investement in new infrastructure becomes questionable.

Fortunately for Bangalore airport, the Nagwara metro line in phase-2 can be extended (as a normal metro line) along Thanisandra road & further till the airport, with many growing areas. So, it may not suffer the same fate as DAME, hopefully.

Sanjeev's picture

Why suddenly BMRC talking of 265 Kms Network???

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The proposed new network of 150.94 km will virtually throw a metro grid around Bangalore city after completion besides connecting key points such as the Bengaluru International Airport, Hebbal and Magadi Road. After completion of all the three phases, Bangalore will have a respectable 265 km of metro network.

The State government’s high-power committee has already cleared a pre-feasibility study on the proposed network, said a BMRCL statement.

Under Phase 2A, the Gottigere-Nagavara line of Phase 2 will get extended till the international airport, a distance of 23.37 km. Also, another 33 km new line will connect Yelahanka in the north and Sarjapur in the southeast under Phase 3. The Outer Ring Road (ORR) will be covered by the metro network (64.37 km) under Phase 3 with the line being proposed from Hebbal to Bannerghatta Road via Central Silk Board, Ganapathi temple, Bannerghatta Road and back to Hebbal.

Another new line is proposed from Hosakerehalli in south Bangalore to the ORR, connecting the grid (21.31 km). The proposed Peripheral Ring Road (PRR) on Magadi Road too will be connected to the Phase 1 grid at the Magadi Road toll gate through an 8.89-km new line.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/bangalore/namma-metro-envisages-265km-network-in-bangalore/article4861020.ece $(function() { $('#articleKeywords a').click( function() { var keyword = $(this).text(); if (keyword.indexOf(' ') != -1) $('input#searchString').attr("value", '"' + keyword + '"'); else $('input#searchString').attr("value", keyword); $('#simpleSearchForm').submit(); return false; }); });

With experience of DAME of Delhi,  Karnataka Govt should be carefull in further on the METRO and amount of loan taken with further USD appreciating.  Its make GOK bankrup with 40,000 Crore expenditure.

Suddenly Metro network is going for 265 Kms in Bangalore??? great to hear and  by the time I attain 60 Years,  I will be happy If I am able to travell all these 265 Kms in Bangalore & arround.

Thanks for earlier GOK decision to move away from HSRL.  Other wise whole  GOK  has to pledge for all the loans taken amounting to more then 60,000 crore  and look at operation and Maintenance cost.

 

As Srinidhi mentioned Mr Sreedharn was instrumental in pushing for PPP for Bangalore HSRL  and even for Ph-2 of METRO,  If u look at GIM 2010 and GIM 2012,  they had offered  Bangalore MERO for PPP and even letter was written to CM Yeddiurappa to take drastic decision with all clearace for the  Bangalore  HSRL.   

What will explode for Bangalore METRO with 40,000 Crore investment after 5 years from Now.

 

Sanjeev's picture

Konkan Railway accumulated losss : 3000 Crore

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The corporation, even after 15 years of its formation and owning 760-km route network, is unable to clear the loans raised for the construction of the unique project. The accumulated losses are over Rs. 3,000 crore, they said.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/karnataka/include-mangalore-region-in-konkan-railway/article4866610.ece

Example how things could have been turned for advantages :

Complet Konkan belt  blessed with Nature and Sea.  Evey important station could have been made commercial hubs including tourists facility  with  premium services during Mansoon Rains from Panvel to Kerala and back may during weekend.    

Their are many options exists and with Konkan Rail corporation,  things  should have easily done not like IR.

Naveen's picture

Sridharan was against PPP

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Sridharan never supported PPP & had opposed hyderabad metro PPP from the very beginning. With Konkan railway, he had shown how new & complex railway constructions could be speedily executed by departing from IR /ministry's age-old practices - George Fernandes (then Railway Minister) was instrumental in supporting Sridharan in this effort & later, Sheila Dixit for Delhi Metro - so, the criticism against him is unfair.

KRC may have been profitable if all the planned services had been operated including goods trains, but IR & the respective states had not supported KRC by financing linkage contructions to KRC, though they had promised to do the same when Konkan track construction began - this had been part of the viability requirements for KRC as there were many benefits by routing goods on KRC's tracks with much reduced distances.

The bosses in IR had also opposed the civil construction unit which under Sreedharan had departed from the rigid age-old methods & practices of IR & also never pursued the sister projects to make KRC a success. They still argue that if maximum goods trains are routed via KRC's tracks, they would lose freight revenues since rates are higher with longer distances!

So, KRC continues to bleed. Passenger traffic alone can never make KRC profitable. It still has huge debts & is currently just able to recover operational costs.

murali772's picture

Sreedharan a demi-god

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Excerpted here are the relevant lines from an article on Kochi Metro that appeared in the ToI on 1st Nov, '12 (for the full report, click here):

The Kerala high court on Wednesday clarified that it was the government's policy decision to decide how the Kochi Metro Rail Project should be implemented and, in that context, queried if no expert other than E Sreedharan was available to implement the prestigious project.

The observation was made by a division bench comprising chief justice Manjula Chellur and justice AM Shaffique while considering a petition by a local leader of BJP challenging the plan to invite global tenders for the project. The public interest litigation by Balachandran G Nair had sought the court's intervention to ensure that Sreedharan heads the project and Delhi Metro Rail Corporation (DMRC) is entrusted with the project's implementation.


I responded as below in the readers' columns:

The idea of a metro for Kochi in itself is totally ill-conceived. The city has had a fairly reliable bus service, operated by private sector players, all these years. With proper facilitation and regulation of their operations, the private players would very easily be able to meet the needs of the city adequately (check this). Proper traffic management (including curbs on the use of private cars and motorbikes, particularly during peak hours, etc), building of some 4 fly-overs along the by-pass road, and a few railway over/ under - bridges at a few key locations, would further aid the process. All of these will cost far lesser than having this white elephant of a Metro, which apart from the questionable utility aspect, is going to cause huge disruption of the city life for years together, even if executed according to schedule. Apparently, the project itself has resulted out of an ego trip on the part of Mr Sreedharan, who now kind of believes that he has attained the status of a demi-God, and wants to shower his benevolence on "his people". Mr Sreedharan's achievements, as an engineer and project manager, have indeed been commendable. But, that does not necessarily make him a good economist or an urban planner. And, for all that, when he over-plays his cards and gets into politicking, perhaps it is time to suggest to him to retire gracefully, may be by bestowing on him a life-time achievement award.
 

Muralidhar Rao
Sanjeev's picture

Its good analysis by Murali

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With HSRL of Bangalore which was cooked for the ridership with false Airport traffic of 17 Million by 2012 for BIAL and with sample survey of public who were Air Travellers without much inputs to them.   Hope Kerala Govt do not get into too much of burden and already they  r talking of High Speed Rail between South - North Kerala which was again campaigned by this Sreedharan.   For Bangalore METRO,  with this further US Dollor appriciation whcoh will have direct impact on loan repayment, royalty payment for Coach Technology, Capital Equipment purchase for the METRO,   input material cost escalation like example one truck load of Sand costing 25K,  delay in completion and their r not much expenditure control by the officals on day to day of their work.  All this will escalate the project cost may be 2 times.  I wish all the project details are available on public domain for the BMRC as was done in MRVC Mumbai  by world Bank.

Sanjeev's picture

BMRCL's Magic 265 Kms explaination here

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Phase -1  : 42.3 Kms  at  Rs 13,000 Crore

Phase -2 : 72 Kms  at  Rs 24,000 Crore 

and balance  150.94 Kms  at Rs 45000 Crore  ( 300 Crore per Km after 5 years )  as below :

1.  Nagavara -Airport : 23.37 Kms

2. Outer RIng Road  ( Hebbal - Ganapathay Temple, Bannerghatta Road Via Silkboard and Ganapathy Temple, Bannerghatta Road to Hebbala )  64.37 Kms

3. Hosakerehalli to Outer Ring Road   : 21.31 Kms

4. Peripheral RIng road  to Tollgate  : 8.89 Kms

5. Sarjapur  to Yelahanka    33 Kms

http://bmrc.co.in/pdf/news/Phase2A3.pdf

 Total 83,000 Crore Investment  for BANGALORE METRO.

Thats why all our blind and dumb politicans and  policy makers are able to see their 2/3 generation family fortunes???

 

  

Sanjeev's picture

Speed train to airport back on board after CM visit to China

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Chief Minister Siddaramaiah's eight-minute, 50-km high-speed ride from Shanghai city to Pudong International Airport on an electro-magnetic train during his recent visit to China may change the way Bangalore commutes.

A Rs 6,689-crore project for a 37-km high-speed rail link (HSRL) between Bangalore city and Bangalore International Airport, which was considered dead and buried, is back on the drawing board.

Sources in the finance, urban development and infrastructure departments said HSRL, put on the back burner by the erstwhile BJP government that favoured extension of Bangalore Metro, was witnessing renewed interest in the past few weeks.

The feasibility of HSRL is once again before the finance department for consideration. "It is true a file regarding revival of the high-speed rail link to the airport has come to us,'' sources in the department said.

Sources said there was pressure from New Delhi as well for reconsideration of HSRL to ensure smooth connectivity to the city.

"There has been a lot of criticism by the Ministry of Civil Aviation in recent days that airport connectivity in Bangalore is a problem area," sources in the infrastructure department said.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/speed-train-to-airport-back-on-board-after-cm-visit-to-china/1173451/0

Its very clear that Lobby is working for the Big Ticket Projects like HSRL, Mono Rail  or METRO

But for Suburban Rail / CRS, either GOK, GOI,  Railway Board, Urban Development Ministry / Secretary do not have time to clear the project  but keep coming out  with terminology for delaying the project.

Will DULT and CS of GOK have any answer for their inoordinate delay ??

 

kbsyed61's picture

Lets worry about suburban rail!

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Sanjeev,

I would think it will be a waste of time and efforts worrying about HSRL, METRO or MONO RAIL etc. Fruitful would be to put all all our energies to see that Suburban gets started ASAP. Once its starts and gets the good patronage, will take care of many of the frustrations you and me would like to vent.

As our friend Naveen says, transportation is a political problem and only politicians can solve it. We can only try and influence them. Would be lucky even if we get one project to be influenced by us.

 

Sanjeev's picture

RITES tasked with preparing DPR for Metro Phase III

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The 133-km phase will cover hitherto unconnected areas of Koramangala, Sarjapur, HAL

Namma Metro is set for another network boost. Buoyed by the Centre’s recent clearance of Namma Metro Phase-II, the Bangalore Metro Rail Corporation Limited (BMRCL) has begun the spadework for a 133-km Phase III. 

The Corportation has awarded engineering consultancy firm, RITES the contract for a detailed project report (DPR) for the 33-km line from Central Silk Board to Hebbal, one of the five routes proposed under the new phase.

A high-power committee constituted by the State government had already approved a pre-feasibility study on the network in June last year. 

The four other routes will connect Nagawara and Kempegowda International Airport (KIA) by a 25-km line; Hosakerehalli and Outer Ring Road near Marathahalli through Old Airport road (23 km); Sarjapur Layout (station, Carmelaram) and Yelahanka (station, Kogilu Road Cross) by a 35-km line passing through Central College, Palace Guttahalli, Mekhri Circle and Hebbal; and a 17-km line from the Nice Ring Road to Toll Gate via Magadi Road. Gollarahatti on Nice Road and Vijayanagar are likely to be the two stations on either edges of this line. 

The Central Silk Board - Hebbal line will cover vast stretches of the Outer Ring Road, linking areas such as Sarjapur road, Marathahalli and Mahadevapura. The Hosakerehalli - ORR link will effectively connect Marathahalli, Manipal Hospital junction, HAL Main Gate and other areas along Old Airport road, which were hitherto outside the Metro network. The Nagawara-KIA airport link is part of the Phase-2A of the project. 

Although KIA’s Terminal-2 has made provisions for Metro connectivity, a final picture is yet to emerge on this critical line. The airport connection was earlier part of the High-Speed Rail Link (HSRL) project. 

The 42.3-km Phase I, 72-km Phase II and 133-km Phase III are expected to considerably boost the City’s Metro grid. The third phase may take several years for completion. But it will bring vast stretches of the City such as Koramangala, Sarjapur, HRBR Layout and Magadi road under the Namma Metro network. 

Feasibility studies

As part of its DPR and feasibility report, RITES has been tasked with undertaking a detailed geo-technical investigation along the identified corridors of Phase-III, BMRCL sources told Deccan Herald. 

The agency will carry out soil investi­gations at every 200 meters for elevated stretch and 100 meters for underground stretch. RITES will also do detailed traffic survey projections for traffic demand for the year of commissioning and horizon years. 

In its environment impact assessment report, RITES will measure the project’s effect on air, noise and water pollution. The number of trees to be cut / trimmed and displacement of the people along the corridor will be worked out. Cost estimates will be prepared based on prevailing market rates / accepted rates of Metro Phase-II, with suitable price escalation. 

http://www.deccanherald.c...

Whats happening ??? 

Imagine if METRO to criss corss at KR Puram Railway station, one going towards Whitefield, other going towards Hebbal,  and Hanging bridge which itself presently is mess,  how r they goingt o take this out.  Then where is BRTS going to fit on Silkboard to Hebbal ???

srinidhi's picture

not touching kr puram

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82 users have liked.

It looks like its not touching KR puram on its way to the airport..according to the map in DH today:

Dont understand if they understand what the catchment area for a metro station is..alas!

Vasanth's picture

Wastage of money for ORR

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67 users have liked.

Outer Ring Road between Silkboard to Hebbal has been built with Split Flyovers to accomodate BRTS. With few additional flyovers, BRTS could be started at much lower cost and in  short time.

kamalakar pandit's picture

connectivity looks great..

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Hi,

The connectivity looks great provided works starts and ends on time...because of the political unwilingness these projects will take min. 5 decades to complete...I may not be alive to see metro phase III.

they all plan very nicely...we need people who implement and complete the project on time. be it NAMMA RAILU, Metro, Mono oR BRTS, its all done with one common goal to ease the transportation problems...

thanks to selfish politicians..they think its their own cup of tea and behave as if they are doing some favour.

Regards

kamal

Vasanth's picture

Have Metro to places where sustainable transport cannot reach.

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66 users have liked.

Having Metro covering the same places where CRS can cover or having Metro in a wide 3 lane road where more affordable BRTS can be run, as well as having Metro within 2 kms span of another Metro line does not make sense at all.

As proposed in Phase 3, Metro on Outer Ring Road does not make any sense at all. Rather, having it in inner circle  in underground makes it more sensible. Inner Circle along Koramangala inner ring road, Indiranagar 100 feet Road interfacing with Purple Line,, Kasturinagar, Bangalore East,  Vyyalikaval, Malleswaram, Basaveswarnagar interfacing with Green Line , West of Chord Road interfacing with Purple line again at Prasanna, RPC Layout,  Avalahalli BDA Park, Hanumantnagar, Gandhibazaar - National College Circle again interfacing with Green Line, Shanthinagar Bus Stand, Forum Mall and again connecting back to Koramangala.

This is somewhat the Kendriya Saarige covers. This can be either Monorail or Underground Metro and will act as feeder line to Radial Metro Lines from inner core areas of Bangalore. 

On the outer Ring Road, we could have more sustainable BRTS at much lower cost, lower time of construction.

Hoskerehalli - Marathalli line is also a waste. I stay in Katriguppe close to Hoskerehalli. 3 kms towards East I get Green Line, 3 kms towards west, we get Purple line. What is needed is good feeder to reach there.

 


 

Vasanth's picture

Have Metro to places where sustainable transport cannot reach.

up
70 users have liked.

Having Metro covering the same places where CRS can cover or having Metro in a wide 3 lane road where more affordable BRTS can be run, as well as having Metro within 2 kms span of another Metro line does not make sense at all.

As proposed in Phase 3, Metro on Outer Ring Road does not make any sense at all. Rather, having it in inner circle  in underground makes it more sensible. Inner Circle along Koramangala inner ring road, Indiranagar 100 feet Road interfacing with Purple Line,, Kasturinagar, Bangalore East,  Vyyalikaval, Malleswaram, Basaveswarnagar interfacing with Green Line , West of Chord Road interfacing with Purple line again at Prasanna, RPC Layout,  Avalahalli BDA Park, Hanumantnagar, Gandhibazaar - National College Circle again interfacing with Green Line, Shanthinagar Bus Stand, Forum Mall and again connecting back to Koramangala.

This is somewhat the Kendriya Saarige covers. This can be either Monorail or Underground Metro and will act as feeder line to Radial Metro Lines from inner core areas of Bangalore. 

On the outer Ring Road, we could have more sustainable BRTS at much lower cost, lower time of construction.

Hoskerehalli - Marathalli line is also a waste. I stay in Katriguppe close to Hoskerehalli. 3 kms towards East I get Green Line, 3 kms towards west, we get Purple line. What is needed is good feeder to reach there. This line runs so much parallel to purple line.

 


 

Vasanth's picture

This is the route on map connecting the core Bangalore

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78 users have liked.

This is the route map working like a feeder cum trunk Metro line. Needs majority of the portion to be underground to pass through core city:

https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zAEF7AqsN_fk.kWllRQ9wSjYA

Will extract KML and put it directly over here.

Sanjeev's picture

Comparing METRO fares of Delhi, Kolkatta, Bangalore

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Sanjeev's picture

With BMTC having multiple journey options with single monthly

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BMTC which is providing monthly pass with multiple journey,  how far Bangalore METRO can attract commuters with fares of RS 23/- for single journey.   

Purpose of mass transport with affordable  if its not taken care,  how Bnaglore METRO will become mass urban transport.  I was trying understand when Banasankari - Yesvantpur line gets opened,  single journey will cost nearly Rs 70 - 80 /- for single journey.

Same thing will be Kengeri - Biayyappanhallai.  Also their is proposal to charge premium fares for Whitefield station commuters.  That means Bangalore METRO can attract car commuters and not other BMTC bus commuters ???

srinidhi's picture

ticket pricing policy..

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75 users have liked.

BMRCL needs to come clean on how the tickets are being priced and what drives it. 

The BMRC website leads to a error 404 page for 'fare rules'

BMTC has been totally unfair in its ticket pricing and stage description..hence I think the metro is also following its way..the way of anything works in bangalore..no one questions attitude!

DOnt know what the state govt is upto..they will also put their hands up like what they did for the NICE toll on the expressway?

 

Sanjeev's picture

How BMRC claculates fares vs DMRC fares

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74 users have liked.

If BMRC has Rs. 2.14 per km fares, which could take care of just the electricity cost.  We need to compare whats running cost of DMRC Delhi.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/bangalore/namma-metro-fares-set-to-go-up-upwards/article5244830.ece

How is that Delhi is able to keep fares of Rs 30 /- for 50 Kms  with total 41 stations between Dwaraka Sec21 and Vaishali starting fare of Rs 8/-. 

In Delhi DMRC,  Vaishali to Yamuna Bank which is 9 Kms,  charging Rs 15/- with 9 stations in between

Then after this in between DMRC keeps fares constant for 3 stations when travelling from Vaishali:  1. Jhandewalan   2. Karol Bagh    3.Rajendra Place  from Vaishali at Rs 19/- and same thing done for couple of stations.
But fares between  : Jhandewalan - Karol Bagh  - Rajendra Place  is Rs 10/- only.

http://www.delhimetrorail.com/metro-fares.aspx

BMRC is charging Rs 23/- for 10 Kms with 10 stations. 

srinidhi's picture

subsidies take care of it

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was reading the Delhi state govt provides subsidized electricity to DMRCL and thats one of the reason the ticket prices are low..also Delhi is  due for a price revision as the operating costs are getting higher but politicians are not allowing hikes due to elections..

So, expect the prices to raise there just after elections.

Karanataka govt guess will not be in a position to give such subsidies considering metro is only limited to bangalore..however other charges like congestion/fuel cess only in Bangalore can allow subsidies..its just about working things out with a clear mindset..

Sanjeev's picture

What efforts made by MOUD / GOI and GOK in PT

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Bangalore  does not have street paid parking in CBD areas like MG Road, Mejestic, Malleshwaram, Jayanagar, Basavangudi, Indiranagar, Koramangala, Yesvantpur, Shivajinagar, KR Market.  But we want people to use the METRO same time by paying higher fares. 

I feel GOI and GOK have failed to put condition of making paid street parking along METRO routes in Bangalore, Dicscourage private vechiles parking along METRO routes,  parking fees collected should be used for Public Transport like BMTC, METRO. 

In Bangalore,  GOK has allowed  Private developers to reap the benefits from the METRO alignment,  instead of generating other revenue for METRO.  Its very well managed by DMRC in Delhi,  they have more revenue collection then the ticket revenue if you read their balance sheet of past few years. 

In Delhi DMRC got many places parking lots thru' which it attracts people to park and take METRO,  in the process attracting more commuters for METRO,  generating more revenue other then fares.

Its very clear in BMRCL,  they will not be able to generate sufficient non-ticket revenues and finally heavy burden on GOK or Commuters.

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