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A new DPR for monorail - when?

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Public Transport

Refer to the proceeds of this BMLTA meeting. Go to section 6/7 - there is no mention of Scomi/Geodesic. Why would IDD again prepare the DPR if Geodesic already submitted one? Different alignment?

See meeting notes in full here:

Subject 6/7: Development of Monorail project for Bangalore under ‘Swiss
Challenge’ as proposed by M/s. Scomi Geodesic

  • CTTP for Bangalore had proposed 60 Kms alignment of Monorail, out of that 29 Kms is being considered for Metro Phase II. IDD to prepare DPR for remaining 31 kms.
  • Authority accorded approval for preparing Feasibility Study for
    development of Monorail from Majestic to Agaram (14.2 Kms), on the
    basis of the recommendation of the Sub-Committee on Monorail. Principal
    Secretary, IDD will speedup the progress in this regard.

The meeting was held back in November. Any progress!?

Comments

santoshfs's picture

 

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Tender has been called by IDD for preparation of DPR for monorail/Light Rail Transit system.

See Times Of India, Wednesday 19th May 2010, Page No. 15, Bangalore edition

ashwin's picture

Mono/Light Rail Routes that were tendered

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Quoting from the tender document (found here http://www.idd.kar.nic.in...), the proposed routes are

Corridor 1: Hebbal to J.P. Nagar (Bannerghatta Road – Ganapathi
Temple) along the western portion of outer ring road. 31 kms

Corridor 2: Peripheral Ring Road (PRR)  to Toll Gate along Magadi
Road. 9kms.

So these are not the SCOMI proposed routes but 2 of the 4 routes proposed in the CTTP (iirr). The other 2 routes seem to have been dropped for overlapping with the Metro Phase 2 routes under consideration, as stated in the meeting notes quoted in the comment above.

Dropped/Deferred Routes:

Corridor 4: Hosur Road-Bannerghatta Road junction to PRR along Bannerghatta Road (15 km): This almost completely overlaps with the reported North South line of Phase 2 (Bannerghatta Road in the south, Tannery Road in the north up to Nagawara)

Corridor 3: Kathriguppe/ring road junction to National college (5 km)

This overlaps partially with the reported East-West route of phase 2, Kathirguppe to Whitefield, although some recent reports suggested that this stretch had been shelved and instead only the current E-W line would be extended from Byappanahalli to Whitefield.

 

 


 

srinidhi's picture

Mono/Light rail from BARL..

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These mono/light rail plans are coming from Bangalore Airport Rail Link Limited  (BARL), whose MD is Madhu V..this is part of the grand airport link projects that govt has embarked on!

Lets see who gets it working faster!

srinidhi's picture

Hitachi now in race..

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Was wondering if it will  be Scomi's talk only..however Hitachi has now stepped in the arena..they have a monorail history and a good track record..so hopefully good should come from it..

more here: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/transportation/railways/Mitsubishi-Hitachi-keen-on-Bangalores-monorail-project/articleshow/6056807.cms

Sanjeev's picture

whose interest

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So called Mono Rail project is for whose  interest,  their is no public interest.  Its between some Govt dept &  technology owned by  Monorail.

Mono rail will be good  if they  just restrict within BIAL premises as its basically a toy train and not for the mass public. If this is done in city, be prepared  enjoy worst then travelling  by standing in BMTC buses and fares will be 6-8 times of higher then BMTC.  All these companies main interest is in Real estate

For the country like India with each METRO city have crossed with population of one crore, we need no less then METRO and  Commuter rail as mass public transport.

Vasanth's picture

Misnomer about Monorail

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There is still a lot of debate about Metro/Mono. It is still a misnomer that monorail cannot carry more passengers. Monorails of Japan being operated are highly efficient with a carrying capacity of 300 per train. It is used in disney land and other places which are often compared by many. Also it has the Right of the way,  so no way it can be compared to BMTC buses. Small turning radius and smaller foot print saves properties and even trees. Moreover, we get an infrastructure without Government investment.

Agreed that the cost is almost near to Metro, but saving will come in the form of property acquisition. When somebody is building it for us without our tax paid money being used, why not utilise it? No where we can compare this to Metro in terms of time taken to cover the distance, frequency, carbon foot print, Right of the way..

Government has to wisely distinguish the routes for Metro and Mono by identifying PHPDT traffic.

silkboard's picture

Come on Sanjeev

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What is the basis for these points you are making Sanjeev:

its basically a toy train and not for the mass public. If this is done in city, be prepared  enjoy worst then travelling  by standing in BMTC buses and fares will be 6-8 times of higher then BMTC.  All these companies main interest is in Real estate

Who said it's a toy train? Mono rail or even at grade Light Rail can carry people faster because it will have right of way. The key promise is that it can be built faster (takes less space), and is cheaper to operate.

About real estate, all urban public transport companies want to make money via real estate,  BMTC (your TTMCs), Metro (their stations) or Monorail (proposed).

If promise about low turning radius, very low ground foot-print are true, why not try it on old city areas.

Sanjeev's picture

Wher do the Mono Rail used

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We should check which all places do the Mono Rail are deployed, for what purpose and where ever monorail has been deployed as public transport, we should compare with B'lore  city population including floating population.

It is used in disney land in Japan,  So why not use in BIAL to DBP, let them include in planning only.

Also, all of us know how public are packed inside the train in Japan, its similar to Mumbai  local Trains.  Also check out Delhi METRO performance during peak hours, even 1st phase is on Broad gauge, still people are not able to get inside the METRO. 

Here I mean Mono Rail is very much suitable within  BIAL boundary &  let Pvt parties operate by paying the market rate for the land inside BIAL & connecting to  Devanhalli Business park ( DBP ) which is going to come up on  230 acres.  or  ITPL to Electronic city.  Why are they not doing feeder service to METRO as earlier thought out. Check out the Mumbai Monorail, it will act feeder service to Local Trains and METRO.  

Now they  want run Monorail from JP Nagar to Hebbal ( 30 Kms ) as main  mass transport system. Monorail generally runs on average coverage dist. of 10-12Kms as planned in Mumbai, for  last mile connectively and not the long distance.

I have seen  even in city like Amsterdam where population is small compared to Bangalore, the Trams ( similar to Mono Rail ) having similar capacity, in the peak hours, their is no place to even stand inside the train in Amsterdam or same case  even in Paris under ground  trains. 

So we should   be realistic on expectations / comfort ness  of  Mono Rail  ride. Advantages of Monorail are not so much attractive / applicable in Indiain city context as urban population is ever growing here. So we need to have mass public transport and not the low carrying capacity of public transport.

We criticize  BMTC or Govt owned entity because they are not efficient, let Pvt be completive  and  let them pay for the  actual land cost and we do not want Private to end up something  like BIAL.

n's picture

Agree on monorail not being a

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Agree on monorail not being a proven system - it seems expensive perhaps because not many systems are currently running in the world. Some earlier discussions are linked below:
ABIDe meeting on monorail

ABIDe meeting - going nowhere?
Monorail cons


idontspam's picture

Monorail carrying capacity

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Definition Small Size Train Medium Size Train Large Size Train End Car Middle Car End Car Middle Car End Car Middle Car
Normal Condition
Seating + Standee (0.250m²/Person)
49 43 92 103 103 117
Full Loaded Condition
Seating + Standee (0.167m²/Person)
67 57 123 138 140 159
Crush Loaded Condition
Seating + Standee (0.125m²/Person)
- - 155 174 177 201

Source

Naveen's picture

Monorail - Lot of show, limited capacity

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Monorail may stir up images of high profile settings, sophistication, speed & modernity, thanks to disneyland. Vendors may promise to whisk commuters quietly & swiftly with sleek coaches above the city's streets & offer to pay for building them. The reality is that they will bleed commuters & the city, as Sanjeev says above.

The corridors chosen (West ORR, Magadi rd) are both high density, or will become so soon. How long can they match up to the demands ? Metro, costing a little more might have made better sense, but Metro makers do not offer to build for free !

For Bangalore, the Monorail corridors could have been right across the city centers where frequency has to be very high & the roads are narrow - Scomi's proposal was far better, but the CTTP says something else !

Scomi has brought out a new model, "Sutra", promising increased capacity, but it remains unproven since Putrajaya, Malaysia is still to recover from the asian crisis !

For India, I'm not sure if this mode will succeed at all since cities will have people by the crores, similar to real estate costs !

srinidhi's picture

JP Ngr - Hebbal monorail sans logic

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Weighing LRT and monorail as low capacity last mile connection options. I, having been a long proponent of at grade LRT,  have come to a hard decision that perhaps monorail is best for us/blr!

However, govts decision to have monorail between JP Nagar and Hebbal as a feeder to HSRL sans logic.

As we know the ring road stretch between Silk board and Hebbal is being made signal free with numerous flyovers and underpasses. So once completed, busses in BRT or otherwise, should be in a very good position to cater to users travelling to airport. Maybe as quickly as the monorail itself!

So why the authorities planning a monorail here? to buid redundancy? 

<update> Thanks Naveen, I stand corrected on the western route planned..yeah guess metro would have made more sense..as ring road itself give good space for building metro without much land acquisitions!

Naveen's picture

Monorail planned on west ORR

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Monorail is planned on western part of ORR (Hebbal - BEL - Tumkur rd - Magadi rd - Mysore rd - Bannerghatta rd).

Signal-free will be on eastern part of ORR (Hebbal - OMR - Varthur rd - Hosur rd).

So, the corridor chosen is correct, but Monorail wasn't the right choice since there are huge growth areas all along ORR, east or west. An elevated Metro might have been a better choice, allowing for substantial scaling up of capacities as needed in future.

Monorail could have been used as recommended by Scomi - cutting through Madivala, Shantinagar, Corporation, KR circle, Majestic upto Rajajinagar - would have been an ideal choice for connecting so many dense areas where Metro will  be very difficult to build.

Vasanth's picture

Monorail on ORR is still a feeder according to RITES

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Since Metro will be present at Banashankari, Nayandahalli, Jayadeva (Phase 2), RITES may be thinking to use Mono as feeder for these. For few people like me staying in BSK 3rd Stg, it will be a feeder. If I want to take North-South line, I will use Mono to reach Banashankari Station. If I want to use East-West line, I would use Mono to reach nayandahalli. It may not be for others. Traffic density on the west portion of ORR is really less compared to east portion. If Mono can scale upto that level, it should be good enough. Seeing the passenger carrying capacity posted by IDS with a good frequency should be good enough.

We all know everyone may not use PT. Still we will have car users, bike users, bus users etc.

Naveen's picture

ORR (W or E) is Primary rd

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Vasanth - Okay, I know ORR west isn't as crowded with traffic like ORR east - presently. RITES has recommended Mono, no doubt, but I think their vision plan was till 2025 - a mere 15 years away now.

Generally, when a choice has to be made for primary routes, I think the option must always allow for substantial increase in capacity for the future. ORR will certainly be the prime road in all of the areas that it passes through, besides connecting highways & several urbs & suburbs. Provision for bus or rail corridors on the new PRR is being planned for this reason, since it will be the primary road wherever it passes.

Should the need arise in future to increase capacity, Metro would be the better choice since Monorail is lighter - it can carry people only by the hundreds & might become saturated in abt 15 years. Metro can move people by the thousands, if required later.

For the present, if Metro is opted for on west ORR, it can be run with reduced no. of coaches &/or at reduced intervals to result in similar capacities for now (cost of construction along with cost of reduced no. of Metro coaches might almost be the same as Monorail or slightly over).

Monorail routes in spurs along Magadi road, Sarjapur rd, Old airport rd, Banaswadi rd, etc. to connect with Metro as feeders may be sufficient even for the future. Monorail cutting through the city's dense areas with narrow rds is also the best option since frequent, light services can be run where Metro construction is too difficult, anyway.

But, I don't think Monorail on a large, primary rd is wise, especially when Metro can be built quite easily there. The problem is finance. Legitimacy & justification for Monorail is already in place through CTTP. Besides, the Monorail option with private parties is more attractive for obvious reasons !

Vasanth's picture

Finally - A ride on the Mumbai Monorail

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Monorail ride in Mumbai:

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=543116529034813

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