Skip to Content

Sanity Check: Bangalore international airport rail link

up
191 users have liked.
Metro RailPublic Transport

[Cross posted from My Blog]

The Karnataka state government is tripping over itself trying to expedite the High Speed Rail Link (HSRL) to the new Bengaluru International Airport (BIA), conservatively expected to cost Rs. 5,200 - Rs. 5,700 Crore by completion date, somewhere by 2012.


The HSRL project has been put on the fast track, and the Karnataka State Industrial Investment and Development Corporation Limited (KSIIDC) has already published a Request for Qualification (RFQ) document on its website. KSIIDC is expected to announce the short-list by October 21. The letter of award to the bidder is estimated for February 16, 2009. Delhi Metro Rail Corporation (DMRC), is the project consultant.

The City Airport Terminal (CAT), the starting point of the HSRL is on Parade Ground next to the Chinnaswamy Stadium on M.G. Road, with stations at Hebbal and Yelahanka. The final station will be at BIA. The first three stations will be elevated, and the BIA station is has not been determined as yet.

I am confused on some aspects of the HSRL when trying to do a sanity check.

Sanity Check 1: Who is the target customer of the HSRL ?
In 2012, assuming the global economy revives in the next 12 months, oil prices reduce drastically, and BIAL's ambition of a south India hub comes true, I can project a maximum growth to 30 million passengers. Which translates to about 500,000 passengers, up and down, per week. Assuming 60% of passengers use the HSRL, this translates to a maximum of 300,000 trips per week.

Assuming 20,000 workers at the airport, if airport workers are added, then the number of weekly trips can increase 50% to 450,000 trips.

The time-table of "airport city" where another 100,000 people are expected to work is unknown at this time. When airport city reaches peak capacity we can assume another 250,000 trips per week.

Each category of person has differing needs.

Sanity Check 2: Convenience
The Central Business District (CBD) which includes M.G. Road area is completely choked with traffic. How many travellers are willing endure the pain and hardship to come to the CAT, and then take a train.

HSRL passengers from Central, South and South East part of Bangalore can still be expected to use the CAT, since it is on the way to the airport. Those from the western, eastern, and north-western suburbs are not going to spend enormous amounts of time deviating from the shortest possible route to come to the CAT. It is unclear if there is a park and ride facility at Hebbal.

Sanity Check 3: Close integration with Namma Metro and BMTC
A lack of close integration with the Metro is another area due for a sanity check. Integration with the Metro is vital for the long term success of the HSRL as it will provide the distributed connectivity to various parts of the city. As per my understanding, the Minsk Square metro station will be connected by a 200 meter walkway to the CAT. 200 meters with luggage does not remotely qualify as integration. There is no information available on whether the Vayu Vajra service will be linked to the CAT.

Sanity Check 4: Affordability
Passengers want to get to the airport in the shortest amount of time and are willing to pay a premium, but the airport worker wants affordability. BMTC has been forced to offer monthly passes on its much vaunted Vayu Vajra service for Rs. 2,500 per month, which translates to Rs. 50 per trip (compared to a planned Rs. 200 on the HSRL), and even this most workers and businesses find expensive.

Sanity Check 5: Financial Viability
If the HSRL will not cater to airport workers, then traffic will drop to 300,000 trips per week. Even at 500,000 trips per week, and at Rs. 200 a trip, the gross revenue will be about Rs. 520 Crore per year. A profit after tax (PAT) of 10% will result in an annual profit of just about Rs. 52 Crore, ridiculously small for a 5,000+ Cr outlay.

I have tremendous regard for Mr. E. Sreedharan, especially his construction achievements on the Konkan railway and DMRC, but DMRC does not enjoy the best of reputations on financial transparency. Sunil Jain's Rational Expectations article in today's Business Standard is a good reality check on how DMRC manipulates or suppresses figures to project a rosy picture, when in reality, it is not.

I am the first person to stand in the Yes column when it comes to better connectivity to BIA, including the HSRL. However, at a time when Karnataka has more pressing infrastructural and social needs, a detailed sanity check is required to ensure the HSRL does not turn out to be another white elephant draining the precious public coffers.

-----------------------

Regards

Devesh R. Agarwal

Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com

 

Comments

santsub's picture

High Speed Rail - BIA

up
127 users have liked.
It looks like our govt is bent upon keeping its promise since it announced HSR to BIA when it came to power. But most of my friends here are right - its not a viable option. I am sure Rs.5700 Crores can be spent on better infrastructural needs and instead connect Metro line in to BIA. BIA had already made plans for an underground station which should work well. I have not seen an exclusive train to the Airport alone in my experience but for one in Cleveland Ohio which is so under used and it connects only Downtown Cleveland which is why its totally unpopular. Most of the cities world wide have metro rail connecting the airport which spreads all across the city which means nobody has to travel to CBD and then check-in and get into this special train. Instead air travelers can take the metro all the way from their homes to the airport. I agree that it may take a little longer than an exclusive fast train but its a hassle free ride and if we add longterm lower cost parking at the metro terminals then they can leave their cars or vehicles in the parking lots and take the train to the airport. Less Pollution and more comfort. Can we talk to the govt and persuade them in not blowing up money on a white elephant that may not be profitable in the long run?

Economic Rate of Return

up
124 users have liked.
For Government of Karnataka to operate the HSRL will mean immense benefit in terms of economic return. No private investor would invest in HSRL given the abysmal rate of return. However, that does not mean it is a white elephant. By even transporting 100,000 people per day, atleast 100,000 private vehicles can get off the roads. Ideally, the HSRL will be connectted to the Metro which will enable people from Electronics City to take the metro towards Chinnaswamy Stadium and thence to BIA. This journey from EC-Cricket Stadium-BIA will take nothing more than 30 minutes max compared to 2 hours it might take even on the proposed Peripheral Ring Road which might come up at that time. The BMLTA summmit clearly stated a point that Government look at economic rate of returns, viz., higher productivity, time savings, large tax returns, environmental benefits such as less carbon emissions, when planning large infrastructure projects. Besides, Governments have ability to raise taxes when the economy does well. If the Economy of Bangalore benefits because of HSRL, then it would mean good returns for the Government as well. The car driving elites of New Delhi love to criticise the metro and BRT there because they cannot use their cars. Enuf said!
jammy97's picture

I read the HSRL RFQ..

up
148 users have liked.
I read the HSRL RFQ posted on the website in detail. I found the rolling stock specifications is not too different to the 'Namma' metro. CCTV's, live route info, Air conditioned cars are all similar to the metro. The metro itself can be slightly modified to meet the trailer cars requirements specified in the RFQ. There needs to more transparency in the need for the HSRL when the metro itself can be extended. For the differentiation factor from the 'Namma' metro, have a different name...just as 'Vajra' and 'Vayu Vajra'.
narayan82's picture

CAT and public transport

up
127 users have liked.
so the CAT is close to the M G road Chinnaswamy station of the Metro, so that does take care of some amount of connection to the Metro. Assuming the Hardware Park, convention centre and other utilities come up beside BIAL, the traffic would be more than just air travelers. What can be done, is to have 2 -3 coaches dedicated to airport travelerrs, and keep 1-2 coaches for regular users (passes). These can be subsidised to those working at BIAL and around. About CAT: Can't all the Vaayu Vajras terminate at CAT? This way the idea of using cars to get to the CAT can be dismissed. that will also reduce tarffic around M G road. the CAT will be on Cubbon Road (entrance I am assuming) and so you dont have to enter M G road. and by the time the CAT is ready Metro construction work on M G road will be over.
Narayan Gopalan
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
narayan82's picture

HSRL and Cargo

up
120 users have liked.
Can the HSRL be linked to the Cargo unit at BIAL? So maybe we have a basement, in the CAT, where agents can book Cargo, and then it can transported in a seperate coach which is unloaded at the BIAL terminus. Saves more trucks from the road to BIAL! Timnings can vary so the trucks and other delivery vans can enter the CAT during late nights or early mornings to book the cargo. Maybe Blue dart can open a city terminal too at the CAT.
Narayan Gopalan
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
idontspam's picture

Why dedicated HSRL

up
110 users have liked.
One of the advantages of having a dedicated rail link is if the system is built with proper security features at the stations then baggage can be checked in at the station itself. You cant have that if the train is shared or common where during peak hours office going commuters will end up fighting with air passengers with baggage etc for space.
narayan82's picture

that is planned

up
122 users have liked.
The HSRL will provide check in facilities at CAT - MG Rd and Hebbal. I suggested the partition in the train, so the daily communters and the checked in passengers do not get mixed up. Hence you could say that the front 3 bogies are for air travelers only( (showing thier boarding pass after checkin or airline ticket) and the rear 2 bogies are for regular airport travelers. Since we can position the train on each plkatform, glass partitions can be errected to seperate the travelers.
Narayan Gopalan
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
blrsri's picture

one advantage..?

up
133 users have liked.
situation: say there is only metro connectivity to BIA situation like mumbai trains can happen on the airport train, where the traveller with luggage cannot make it into the train because of the pushing and pushing! Thats when a dedicated train will come useful.. About the cost, its projected 200 now but by the time it completes it can be 300 too!
Vasanth's picture

Confusion between HSRL and Yelahanka Metro

up
104 users have liked.
I think there is a confusion between HSRL and Yelahanka Metro to BMRCL as well as to Mr. Yeddi. I would suggest extension of Yelahanka Metro to BIAL with special compartments to BIAL passegners with luggage space. At the cost of nearly 100 crorers per KM, why wastage of money and double number of land loosers?
Devesh's picture

Mcadambi - BIAL HSRL recheck the sanity checks

up
115 users have liked.

By even transporting 100,000 people per day, atleast 100,000 private vehicles can get off the roads.

Herein lies the Sanity Check 1. Who is the target customer ? Passenger ? Worker ? Employee ? At its peak of 40 million passengers, the HSRL will transport 100,000 passengers a day. In 5 years when HSRL will be complete, BIAL can expect to be in the 20~25 MPPA category (assuming their expansion goes ahead). That is only 80,000 passengers per day (assuming 6 days a week, to cover for slack travel days). All 80,000 will not use HSRL. If 60% do, that is 48,000. Srivathsa Yajman was charitable and added a companion to the passenger each way, but we know that is simply not true. At best we can inflate by 25%. That is still 60,000 passengers. To increase ridership HSRL needs to get the workers at the airport. For them Rs. 400 per day x 25 days = Rs. 10,000 is plain not affordable.

Ideally, the HSRL will be connectted to the Metro which will enable people from Electronics City to take the metro towards Chinnaswamy Stadium and thence to BIA. This journey from EC-Cricket Stadium-BIA will take nothing more than 30 minutes max compared to 2 hours it might take even on the proposed Peripheral Ring Road which might come up at that time.

Sanity Check 2 : Is the metro connecting to EC ? Can someone on Praja please help. What is the southern most point of the metro 5 years hence ? What about the main traffic generating areas from Jayanagar to Sarjapur Road, Marathahalli, Indiranagar, Koramangala (not connected by Metro). CBD folks can drive to Parade Grounds. In total, 30 mins from southern most point to BIA cannot be 30 mins. That is the running time of the HSRL alone. But yes, 1.25 hours would be an accurate estimate.

Government look at economic rate of returns, viz., higher productivity, time savings, large tax returns, environmental benefits such as less carbon emissions, when planning large infrastructure projects.

Unwritten Sanity Check. Would 5000+ crore not be better spent in other projects that will have a more substantive economic and environmental effect in Bangalore and Tier 2 cities ?

-----------------------

Regards

Devesh R. Agarwal

Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com

-----------------------
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
Devesh's picture

Narayan, recheck the sanity checks

up
119 users have liked.

Assuming the Hardware Park, convention centre and other utilities come up beside BIAL, the traffic would be more than just air travelers.

Recheck Sanity Check 4. Afforability.

What can be done, is to have 2 -3 coaches dedicated to airport travelerrs, and keep 1-2 coaches for regular users (passes). These can be subsidised to those working at BIAL and around.

Recheck Sanity Check 5: Financial Viability

-----------------------

Regards

Devesh R. Agarwal

Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com

-----------------------
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
Devesh's picture

Cargo on HSRL

up
140 users have liked.

Sanity Check 1 : Who is the target customer ?

Also, BIAL has not provided for any connectivity inside the airport. Till today, they expect non-passenger customers to the airport to make their own arrangements, or use the shuttle bus from the trumpet. If any government run organisation had taken this approach, we would have crucified them for a callous attitude.

Thanks to all the respondents, but as I said, I am not opposed to HSRL, but we need to do a Sanity Check.

One thing most people have missed out, the HSRL, is not free to the residents of Bangalore. The tender document also allows for bids that will demand the lowest amount of "grant" from the state.

-----------------------

Regards

Devesh R. Agarwal

Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com

-----------------------
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD

EC link in Phase II of namma metro

up
132 users have liked.
I think Phase II of namma metro is proposed to have a stop at EC. IMO, even if HSRL is deemed to be a white elephant, we can atleast have commuter rail if the existing railway infrastructure of SWR is optimally used.
narayan82's picture

the need

up
138 users have liked.
What we need, is some clever ideas of working the cost down. If we can subsidize passes for workers, employees, and also work this is an option to connect the TTMC that is proposed at BIAL. Since BIAL is yet to construct a station at BIAL, I am sure they can integrate cargo with it. The reason why I am harping about cargo is if it is another source of income for the HSRL, then the passenger fee can be brought down. M G road to BIAL by VV is about 140 Rupees, I would pay Rs 60 more to get there on time, quickly and comfortably. So now we need to see how to integrate a method where we can bring the cost down even more. It can lead to vehicular population decrease on the road, less pollution, and quicker commute time.
Narayan Gopalan
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore

Cargo will have to use existing Rail facilities

up
112 users have liked.
The recently proposed Airport Business Park is proposed to use the assets of SWR for cargo purposes. So i doubt HSRL can get to carry cargo.
kbsyed61's picture

Comprehensive Evaluation!

up
120 users have liked.
Somehow the core issue gets lost in the discussion and debates. In order to pass a judgment whether HSRL is viable, necessary, doable etc needs a comprehensive evaluation of all the issues that relates to this solution - HSRL. It is time, GOK would do a favor, by getting a professional assessment of the needs and solutions to fulfill the needs. Let them put everything in public domain, so that general public is aware of everything on this project. The need that is in question is connectivity to the BIA from all corners of the city. I hope there is no 2 opinions on this. Let's not get emotional with supporting/opposing the HSRL project, just because of the govt that is in power. It has to be solely on merits of the need and the most optimum solution. I am sure B'lore has enough experts who can lend their honest opinion on this. While the discussion and debate on the HSRL will go on. meanwhile it is worthwhile to put the existing infrastructure to maximum use. Go for the low hanging fruits. GOK on priority should get the alternate roads to BIA completed and take them all the way to airport premises from other entrances other than NH-7. SB and others had raised this issue earlier. Per GOK, they have spend crores of rupees on these roads. Lets put these roads to use, while we work on materializing another mode of transport to the BIA.
s_yajaman's picture

Sanity check

up
140 users have liked.

Finally something that Devesh and I agree on (other than that Bishop Cottons is one lousy school :)).

I agree that Mr.Sreedharan is an outstanding executor of projects.  However we need to do the right things before doing this right.  A thorough evalauation of financials and risks needs to be done before we commit $1B to this.  

A lot of the time taken to the airport (50% during non-peak hours) and 75-80% during peak hours is within the city.  By spending Rs.5000 or 6000 crores we can add close to 60 route-km of Metro.  A good Metro system can take 40000 passengers/hr in one direction.  If 60 km is spread across 4 high traffic corridors, we can take somewhere in the 1-1.5 million range off our roads.   The roads will become freed up and the ride to the airport will take less. NHAI is anyway planning some elevated roads and flyovers along  NH7.   Investing 1B should mean the most benefit for the maximum number of people.  We don't need these showpieces.

Srivathsa

 

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

narayan82's picture

Isolation

up
123 users have liked.
My other worry on these project is we are isolating air travel from other modes of travel. Which, with rising air fares seems not such a good idea to me. For instance, if I were to club rail + air, there is a lot of land to cover from the station to the connecting airport. But too, is the same case. I am hoping that the TTMC with BMTC and KSRTC will change things slightly, but SWR seems very stubborn. W.r.t the HSRL - why doesn't it start at KBS? The by 2010, the InterModal Transit centre would have come up, and HSRL can be well integrated by Train, Bus, metro and taxis from such a location. Land aquisition for the station too would be easier. so the first concern would be from Indiranagar/Koramangala Residents - about having to travel all the way to KBS for a train. True. So maybe the train from KBS could come back to Golf Course and then head to BIAL? Lastly, if timing is excellent, then it can actually use the same track as Metro for the KBS to Maharani College area before branching off.
Narayan Gopalan
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
santsub's picture

BIAL - ???????

up
115 users have liked.
With no intentions of starting another stormy thread.. I am just curious to know if BIAL is moving ahead with any improvements at all? I just randomly checked BIA and HIAs websites and - again I was a bit disappointed to see BIA - with same old info... the only thing that changes is the arrival and departure widgets.. HIA has new pics posted with so many other ancillary things completed other than the hotel also completed.. what happened to ourr own Hotel at BIA? they have not even started it? I know we have a controversy over it but wasnt 2500 crores part of more than what we have got? Perhaps this question is for Devesh... do you know if anything is moving? What about Cargo buildings? Did they complete them?
srkulhalli's picture

Airport expressway rethink - incisive

up
151 users have liked.
Devesh, Very good analysis. I think you have articulated it very well. I had put in some of the same concerns in my "Comments to the RITES proposal". It just doesnt add up. Airport connectivity is a problem, but it is only one of the many problems of Transportation infrastructure of Bangalore. It is not the only problem. Question is, is it the best usage of Rs 5000 crores (which is way more than the airport cost, btw). Answer is NO. Airport connectivity can be done by the extension of the METRO system. Check-in facilities, problem of overcrowding etc can be dealt with by having seperate bogies or even dedicated special trains on the same track. We dont need to spend additional 5000 crores for this. The most obvious choice would be to extend the Yelanhanka line. Have a circular METRO rail along the outer periphery (like PRR) which connects ITPL, Electronic City, Peenya etc. This can be on surface, and we can get it done much cheaper. Gives much faster connectivy for all the high density users in outlying areas. Now they have to come to MG Road and then connect. I am with you on this. How do we get more visiblity on your comments ?, BMLTA and ABIDE seem to be the two forums available to take it to.

Suhas

Suhas

srkulhalli's picture

Maglev Experience

up
110 users have liked.
Wanted to add, I travelled from Shanghai airport to city via Maglev. There is nothing about Banglaore high speed airport link which is going to be anywhere close. That travels at an average speed of 300 kmph, capable of 400 +. Secure, stops right at the airport, great parking at entry etc. The occupany of the train was like around 5%. It is pretty much another trip attraction, like a disneyworld ride. In the hotel and among the locals, the default is to book a cab. I think our airport link will end up being something similar.

Suhas

Suhas

Don't compare to Shanghai

up
124 users have liked.
I'm a fairly frequent traveller to the US. And even in this home of "freest markets", the public transport between JFK and the City of New York and O'Hare and Chicagoland are quite good. What is more, ridership per day is quite high in AirTrain of JFK http://en.wikipedia.org/w... IMO, the HSRL proposed for Bengaluru resembles the ones in New York and Chicago more than it does to Shanghai. HSRL will be more successfull because it will be better connected to Namma metro and peak areas such as Electronics City and ITPL area.
srkulhalli's picture

Not really comparing :)

up
115 users have liked.
mcadambi, I agree every case is different and really there is no apple to apple comparison in such complex scenarios. My only take was that dont go by something because its glamourous and flashy, if there is sound Engineering and financial justification, then definitely go for it. In that context, can you elaborate on the points, "HSRL will be more successfull because it will be better connected to Namma metro and peak areas such as Electronics City and ITPL area". I though Devesh had touched upon these in his points and first cut, it doesnt pass the sanity check. Woudnt extending Namma Metro from Yelahanka to BIAL be much cheaper and more effective as it connects to the METRO grid wherever one is.

Suhas

Suhas

Devesh's picture

Slow progress at BIA

up
133 users have liked.

Hi Santsub, not heard from you in so many days.

You are very right. Things are very quiet at BIAL. A lot of the hard questions have been left unanswered.

My meeting, promised me by Mr. Brunner himself, never materialised. Even the one with Praja, does not appear to be on. Instead Prajagale, are being promised a tour from the tarmac to the terminal. Same thing I saw. Appears to be a major PR exercise. I am willing to bet, that none of the hard questions regarding past failures (like the Rs. 200Cr infusion of funds to make a bigger terminal back in 2006), future expansion, connectivity within the airport to cargo facilities etc., to be provided by BIAL, will not be answered. Everything will get wrapped back to UDF.

The cargo building are getting built and outiftted by AI-SATS. Menzies is ready. The cargo and customs agents building is still not delivered, nor is the airline offices building. Apron expansion and other facilities, no idea.

-----------------------

Regards

Devesh R. Agarwal

Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com

-----------------------
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
santsub's picture

Slow Progress... BIA

up
112 users have liked.
Thanks for the reply Devesh. You are right I was a hermit crab for a few days... some changes on my side still getting used to it :). Getting back to the Slow progress you mentioned. If Mr.Brunner is not ready to talk to you or arrange for a meeting with Praja it looks like they have something that is bothering them? Or its because they are overwhelmed with the response People have given to BIAL itself. Possibly the consortia did not expect such questioning and thought they could get away with anything. Not being negative my only concern is they should not miss the train by being late. If UDF comes in to picture they are already getting that from International travellers.. are they worried about domestic? My take is - if they could have really delivered a better product with everything promised atleast? then they had the leverage to talk about UDF etc. When they have fallen short of their promise how can they sit quite? Again - can we put pressure on them to have a meeting with us? Another Tour of the Airport Terminal to tarmac is not what we want - I guess most of the praja members already know whats there - we are interested in whats coming....??
Naveen's picture

Hi-Speed Rail - Destined to Fail

up
127 users have liked.

Hi All,

Interesting thoughts !

I have just seen the CAT at Vienna - a dedicated train from Landstrabe-Wien Mitte (City center) to Flughaven (airport). With a sub-urban train (route S7) already in operation connecting the Vienna city center & various other points to the airport at lesser fare in about 25 minutes, the CAT is moving almost empty & costs an exorbitant 6 euros for the 'fast', 16 minute ride.

Elsewhere, in Berlin, the city with one of the largest Metro networks in the world, a bus service (TXL) operates between Berlin Tegel airport to Hauptbonhof, the Berlin central rail station, from where the UBahn /SBahn Metro is accessible to all parts of the city.

Bangalore's HSR will probably never materialize as the experience of operating dedicated airport trains is not very encouraging, even in the west. The Metro train (Route-A) that connects JFK in NewYork is a regular Metro train with many stops en-route, making it financially successful as it provides commuting facilities to all types of commuters, including air travellers.

I believe the best option for bangalore is to have a Metro line all the way from EC to BIAL, interfacing with other Metro /Mono lines at MG road, Hebbal, etc. This should have stops at about 1 km distances upto Yelahanka, & about 1.5 kms after that. This will also take care of daily & regular commuters + passengers for airport. A nominal additional fee can be levied for those bound for airport with luggage since security measures, etc. would be additional for baggage screening.

Alternately, if an airport dedicated rail system is to be provided, it could be a monorail on BOT basis where the builder /operator invests & meets all costs of construction & charges higher fares for air travellers to recover his costs. This could also use the same routing, but with fewer stops since it would cater to the needs of only air travellers.

 

nash2050's picture

HSRL is cheaper and ideal: Sreedharan

up
137 users have liked.
HSRL is cheaper and ideal: Sreedharan S Praveen Dhaneshkar,P M Raghunandan,DH News Service,Bangalore: DMRC Chief E Sreedharan has warned the State government that any talk of an alternative to high speed rail link to Bangalore International Airport at this juncture, would dissuade and discourage the private companies, which have come forward to implement the project. “The government should never think of a metro to the airport in the present context and once the HSRL is in position, there will be no need for a metro at all,” he stated in the letter to the CM. According the DMRC MD, HSRL costs only Rs 3,800 crore, while metro to BIA costs at least Rs 5,000 crore. Moreover, the government has to make huge investments as equity for metro, while HSRL is proposed on public private partnership model and the government would spend only a small amount. 13 REASONS FAVOURING HSRL *HSRL is cheaper than metro *Metro needs large scale land acquisition *Metro travel time from city to BIA is one hour, HSRL 23 minutes *Metro cannot be implemented under PPP model *Metro not ideal for connecting far off places like BIA *Metro cannot have check-in facilities *Metro connecting airport in other countries hardly patronised *Metro to airport is not part of CTTP plan *Metro needs heavy subsidies, HSRL does not need any. *HSRL doesn’t need much land as it runs on pillars *Metro is viable only if the ridership is over 25,000 per hour per direction *With B’lore getting into the league of major international cities, HSRL is unavoidable * Any talk of alternative will de-rail proposed HSRL source:http://bangalorebuzz.blogspot.com/2009/01/hsrl-is-cheaper-and-ideal-sreedharan.html
idontspam's picture

Dishum Dishum

up
136 users have liked.
E Sreedharan @ 3000 cr or MN Sreehari @ 18000 cr, who is right with 600% gap in HSRL cost estimate?
s_yajaman's picture

Beg to differ with the big man

up
134 users have liked.

With due respect to Mr.Sreedharan, this borders on blackmail - "listen to me or else...".  If the project is indeed as profitable, then there will be no dearth of private players.  What are their names now that he says someone has come forward to do this.

Some basic questions from dimwits like me

a. Why can't Metro run on pillars?  Why land acquisition for Metro and none for HSRL?  Apples vs. elephants (not even oranges)

b. Metro cannot be implemented under the PPP model.  Is this the 11th Commandment from the Bible?

c. Where has been stated that we need to travel in 23 minutes to BIAL?  Can we have something that costs Rs.1000 crores and takes us in 45 mins?  Has such an option even been considered?

d.  With Bangalore getting into the league of ... HSRL is unavoidable.  Tautological - HSRL is needed because HSRL is unavoidable.

e. Metro not ideal for connecting far off places.  Singapore's EW line runs more than 35 km from Pasir Ris to Boon Lay.

f. Metro to airport not part of CTTP.  Big Deal.  High time Metro to North Bangalore was included in the CTTP.

g. Metro not viable unless 25000/hr.  And HSRL is viable at 15000/day?  This seems to come from the Bush School of Voodoo economics.

h. HSRL is cheaper than Metro.  For whom?  the passenger? the government? the non-airport using public.  Please clarify.

h. Any talk of alternative will derail HSRL .  If this is a good reason to build HSRL, I wonder what sort of thinking has gone into this project.

Srivathsa

 

 

 

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

Ravi_D's picture

Extend the Metro...

up
133 users have liked.

... and run a limited stop airport link rolling stock every 30 minutes or so for faster connectivity.

Srivatsa: Don't you think all we need would be an extra line and associated signalling in the stations without stops? That should not add much to the overall cost. I've seen many such bypass lines in Paris where faster trains zoom past stations.

Ravi

rmb's picture

Re: Beg to differ with the big man

up
135 users have liked.
With due respect to EM Sreedharan on timely completion of Konkan Railway & various Delhi Metro phases so far the following short comings on his adamant nature
1. He was pushing the sky bus when he was with Konkan Railway & when the experimented with it in Goa, the moment he got shifted to Delhi metro, he started ditching Sky Bus where ever/when ever possible. How does it become the best technology when he is in, and obsolete the moment he is with another provider/technology?
2. He ditched Hyderabad metro the moment the AP govt. shifted it on PPP Model. Does he think that Govt. Equity will flow as in the case of Delhi Metro for other state citites? That too with a Govt. which thinks there is no land area for India beyond Vindhyachal
3. All praises(only praises) he got for Konkan & DM has made him Pomp Head, and thinks what ever he dictates is THE RIGHT.
RMB
srinidhi's picture

Engineers Dream?

up
122 users have liked.
Sreedharan statements makes me think that he wants an HSRL to finish off on the list of 'things to do'

He did the Konkan rail..Delhi metro and now he wants HSRL to finish off!

s_yajaman's picture

Engineer's dream, Citizen's nightmare

up
144 users have liked.

Srinidhi,

Exactly.  The tone seems to be - "How dare you people come in the way of my pet project?  Don't confuse me with data, my mind is made up".  We have many of these engineering marvels in Bangalore today - the Richmond Circle flyover, the cable bridge. The BETL will get added shortly to this list.

It costs only Rs.3800 crores as per him.  We can have a BIAL branch near Sarjapur Road for that amount ;).

Srivathsa

 

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

Monorail instead of HSRL

up
123 users have liked.
IMO, a monorail along the proposed Thanisandra Corridor which can thence connect to the Byappanahalli Depot of the Metro would serve the long term purpose of quicker and cheaper Airport Transit, Connectivity to Metro and requirement of frequent fliers and airport employees.

The proposed Devanahalli Business Park could also be well served by the Monorail. 
srinidhi's picture

monorail maybe..

up
124 users have liked.
Was of the opinion earlier that area around the airport would develop rapidly and all the people from the hardware park and other places would need a metro instead of mono..

However with the govt decission banning borewells etc in that area has been a setback for development..hence may be monorail can suffice!

nishu's picture

I have a couple of points

up
130 users have liked.
If the HSRL can run at 300km/hour then i guess it makes sense.. Bangalore airport can have 50 million passengers by 2025 if we take 20% growth pa. I know that might be building a little ahead of time but i guess many of us would agree that it is about time we built something ahead of time. At Rs 300 per ride from 2015 onwards i guess the HSRL could make a lot of sense assuming that they can get 50,000 passengers/day. So I think it might still be a great idea as long as our government can complete it on time . I read that as 2012 and also on budget which i saw as 5000 crores. I am sure that there might be better uses of capital but if we can make this one project a grand success we might get other good things. One of them might be to extend this HSRL to other outskirts of Bangalore and use it for Daily commuting. I spend around 4k per month now to office and back which is about 16 km. With a HSRL i don't mind having to spend 6k now as that would save me time. In 2015 10k pm might not be so bad.
anandraj's picture

PPP will bring better services

up
149 users have liked.
As Indian companies don’t have experience of Monorail project, involvement of multinational companies in joint venture with a Indian firm will bring up the best possible outcome.
kppadiyar's picture

Bengalooru and HSR

up
119 users have liked.
K P Padiyar
High speed rail was developed as a sustainable alternative to Air transport for medium distances. Its halts are spaced 60 to 100 kms apart. It cannot serve an Airport located barely 30 kms away.
 
BIA is close to a rarely used Yelahanka – Chikballapur rail corridor. Approach road to Airport crosses rail track between Yerthaganahalli and Doddajala halts.   Corridor is doubled and electrified up to Yelahanka. Providing an electrified spur from Yelahanka to airport would cost less than Rs 150 crores. Doubling and extending electrification from Doddajala to Chikballapur adds an extra MRTS corridor at a low cost and serve more than a million Commuters .
 
Worldbank selected Bengalooru as a competitive city, in its World development report 2000. First requirement of a competitive global city is   seamless transport infrastructure to link its industries with workers, suppliers and clients. It needs affordable and accessible urban/regional transport network, and access to international airports and ports. Bengalooru has provided an International airport. It has yet to provide a link with ports at Chennai and Mangalooru with a dedicated high speed rail corridor. Delhi is being linked with Mumbai and Kolkata already.. Providing a HSR line to Mangalooru is within Karnataka Government’s jurisdiction. It could   equip Bengalooru to achieve global status. 
 
Proposals like HSR to airport reveals an amateurish. approach to transport planning. As an IT city, Bengalooru attracts global interest. It is essential that Bengalooru planning is professionalised to achieve a global recognition.
 
K P Padiyar
srinidhi's picture

HSRL bhoot reappears !

up
122 users have liked.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bangalore/Land-takeover-for-HSRL-soon/articleshow/5783294.cms

 "Besides cutting down commuting time to less than half an hour, HSRL could transform the economic landscape of the Bangalore North region, especially Devanahalli, Yelahanka and the airport corridor. Every large city — be it Shanghai, Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur or London — has such a direct, high-speed link which results in economic multipliers far outweighing the high initial cost of construction"

 

  Never understand CM's view on this..the two sentences above are forming an oxymoron..how can economic landscape of blr north change becos of this exclusive airtport link, as evident from the second sentence?

Economic growth happens when there is a public mass mover(read metro) not exclusive train(hsrl aka white elephant)

They all seem to be disillusioned with the fancy names in the proposals!

Abide doesnt like it and so do many others..why this now?

This is like saying 'Let them eat cake'!

 

srinidhi's picture

HSRL bhootha reappears !

up
123 users have liked.

<repeat>

 

Sanjeev's picture

Common Sense should come first

up
130 users have liked.

We need to re-look at HSRL as mentioned by Mr Padiyar.

HSRL is short sighted approach, taking care of only few Airport Passangers &  its going to be waste of Public money of Rs 2500 crore to be pumped by state and Center Govt with Public Land getting Transferred to some Pvt firms in the name of HSRL.

Govt should drop the HSRL and concentrate on improving the Broad Gauge Rail Track  infrstructure with Double Track from Yelahanaka to Chikabbalapur and Electrifiction and ensure that Train can run with speed more then 120-140Kms/ Hr.

Why are we so much obsessed with Airport connectivity when
When the Railway Broad Gauge Line is running next to Aiprot, they should extend the same to Airport  Terminal ( 2 Kms only )  and run intercity Express Trains from Airport to Bangalore city, Mysore, Bidadi, Hosur, Bangarpet, Nelamangala, Hassan Chikaballapur, Kolar, Doddballapur and Tumakur.

As the Agreeement with BIAL is that within radius of 200 Kms, no Aiprot exists, so above mentioned  towns / cities need efficient, Mass and integration with other modes of   transport needed to connect  to BIAL.

HSRL will be of Big Failure if Govt still adamant  in going ahead. This will become one good monument for Garden city.  As this will not connect  to other parts of Bangalore and near by Townships ./ Cities.

With population nearing one crore for Bangalore city and added to it other towns and cities arround BIAL,  Broad Gauage Rail with High speed Train  running  at 120-140 Kms / Hr speed will really of big use for the Airport Connectivity and other connectivity.

I think we need to file PIL in High court against  HSRL to get the Broad Gauge line extended upto BIAL Terminal with Intercity Train speed of 120-140 Kms/ Hr  running ( Trains already are running with this speed arround Delhi to Agra ).  For improving the  Broad Gauge capcity,  project cost will be less then 1000 Crore  to improve the Infrastructure for the Track speed above 120-140 Kms/ Hr and cost of Rackes will be really less compared to the HSRL Rackes.

As mentioned by  Mr Devesh R. Agarwal starting :

I have tremendous regard for Mr. E. Sreedharan, especially his construction achievements on the Konkan railway and DMRC, but DMRC does not enjoy the best of reputations on financial transparency. Sunil Jain's Rational Expectations article in today's Business Standard is a good reality check on how DMRC manipulates or suppresses figures to project a rosy picture, when in reality, it is not.

I am the first person to stand in the Yes column when it comes to better connectivity to BIA, including the HSRL. However, at a time when Karnataka has more pressing infrastructural and social needs, a detailed sanity check is required to ensure the HSRL does not turn out to be another white elephant draining the precious public coffers.

With project cost HSRL now stands more then Rs 10,000 crore,  with Existing Broad Guage Track with running capacity of 120-140 Kms/ Hr will not cost imore then Rs 2000 Crore ( Max 20% cost of HSRL ) will benifit most of the people not only Airport Passangers. 

Near future  HSRL will  become one more scandel similar to NICE or BIAL, As Lakhs of  Educated professionals are living in Bangalore, we need Good, Efficient, Affordable meeting the requiremnt of  One crore population of Bangalore city.  Not the short sighted HSRL which will be benifical to  Reliance, or some Pvt firms. 

 

 

srinidhi's picture

big projects..bigger kickbacks..

up
125 users have liked.

the eagerness of the CM makes one feel that its just the big payouts such projects would get and also big projects like this means name among public of something very big being done..

useful or not!

Sanjeev's picture

Closing of Hebbal Lake / Need to start campaign save Hebbal Lake

up
141 users have liked.

Activity  No 1 :

NHAI will take up the task of converting the four-lane Hebbal flyover to six-lane, and make NH-7, from Hebbal flyover to the international airport, eight-lane wide and signal-free.

http://www.dnaindia.com/bangalore/report_tumkur-road-flyover-hits-a-roadblock_1373024

Already when Hebbal flyover was build in 2002-03,  part of Hebbal lake was  used for this. Now with one more ramp for the Flyover and expanding of the NH-7, this activity will bring down the Hebbal lake area.

Activity  No 2 :

HSRL Hebbal station will be built on the left side of the Hebbal Flyover ramp while travelling from City.  HSRL has project a need of 7 acer land of Hebbal Lake to construct the Check in Station. Further pillers of HSRL on the lake bed  need to come up here.

On the rigth side of the Fly-over, traffic integration  facility will come up as per DPR study of so called DMRC

Activity  No 3 :

MonoRail from Yesvanthpur to do the feeder service to HSRL  at  Hebbal  with  further Traffic intigration.

With all these activity,   I think Govt & IDD  departments have good plan to  close the Hebbal lake at the earliest in the name of Development.

Why IDD  & Govt are  not exploring the existing SWR track and  further capacity addition to SWR tracks from KR Puram, Yesvanthpur, Hosur-Ankela to K R Puram, Bangarapet-Whietfiled to Yelahanaka. In all these segments, travell time will be  arround 35-50 Minites as recently introduced passanger train from Yesvanthpur to Devanhalli takes 60 Minites as this will stop at all stations. If We have Fast Local Train with Electric engine, travell time will be less then 40 Minites.

Now with HSRL from MG road will be 30 Minites and further add the time taken to reach at MG road or Hebbal  ( only two location )  will be more then 60 Minites.

With METRO getting integrated at four location to SWR stations at Mejestic, Yesvanthpur, Byappanahalli,  Mysore Road,  their is no sense  & its clear picture for wha purpose IDD is working hard to sign the deal for HSRL with 10, 000 crore project & govt money in that is 2000 crore with 300 acre of Land being given to Pvt party for property development.

I hope Praja Members do the bit of campaign to Save the Hebbal Lake.

 

srinidhi's picture

HSRL work from 2011 and so costly..?

up
141 users have liked.

The line will start from BRV Grounds and head through MG Road, Raj Bhavan Road, Sankey Road, Windsor Manor junction, Mehkri Circle and the Hebbal flyover. From Hebbal flyover, the track will be laid at ground level along NH-7.

http://www.dnaindia.com/bangalore/report_board-your-flight-one-train-at-a-time_1398789

Guess the earlier plan was to do stilts till Yelahanka AFB and do underground there and back ariel after that..and guess thats why the cost was so high..6900 crores..

But is it the same cost with going at grade from hebbal??

What are they talking here? What abt the cost Sreedharan said about 3,800 crores when he compared with metro and said metro would be costlier!?

http://bangalorebuzz.blogspot.com/2009/01/hsrl-is-cheaper-and-ideal-sreedharan.html

biscuit..biscuit mama!

Naveen's picture

Glad that they put it down !

up
131 users have liked.

....On the ground. So, now we can travel more safely, or should I say - with reduced danger !

Sanjeev's picture

Already 2+ yrs lapsed after openig of BIAL & still to wait 3+ yr

up
130 users have liked.

Now its more then two years, BIAL was opened and BIAL project was started 5 Years back. Still we are debating on connectivity to BIAL. Even HSRL  work starts,  this will need another 3 years from now.. In this, all of us keep on waiting for things to happen at the mercy of some interest.

Why State & Center are not showing interest ./ eagerness to run slow and  fast Local Trains upto BIAL Trumphet interchange on existing  Railway Tracks from Bidadi, Whitefiled, Nelamangala, Hosur, Tumkur.

Citizens / travellers have already suffered by paying high amount and inconvenience  to reach BIAL and why again Passengers need to suffer for another  next three - four  years. 

Let HSRL take its own time, but let  State & Center should start Local slow and Fast Trains to Devanahalli & provide station below Trumpet interchange. Also at this location, KSRTC has planned to  build Transit Center on PPP.  So  by having railway station and KSRTC Transit Center, will l provide good integration with BMTC can solve  coming days traffic problem on NH-7

idontspam's picture

The route

up
125 users have liked.

The route - Cubbon Road, Raj Bhavan Road, Chowdaiah Road, Windsor Manor bridge, Bellary Road, Mehkri Circle, Hebbal flyover (where elevated HSRL crosses over on the right side) 

Source

srinidhi's picture

Bye Bye Golf Course?

up
136 users have liked.

First the road expansion and now the HSRL...the golf course may be reduced to the size of a theme park with a mini course..putting only! :P

Cant TBM's be used here at all...afterall its a nice stretch of the city?..it can go ariel at Mekhri as the road is wide enough..

Where did the ball dissapear..naw its a obstruction..its taken a train ride...will be back in a few!

Sanjeev's picture

Commuter trains a hit, city to get more soon

up
124 users have liked.

Bengaluru, May 14: Considering the encouraging response to passenger trains on local circuits, more of them could be introduced in the city shortly. For instance, the train to Devanahalli could be extended to Chikkajala for the comfort of passengers heading to the Bengaluru International Airport (BIA), but railway officers say it could take at least three to four years to provide seamless rail connectivity to the BIA.

The railways have been encouraged by the response to the passenger trains running from Yeshwanthpur to Devanahalli and Yeshwanthpur to Hosur, which have been seeing occupancy of more than 70 per cent, mainly due to the low fares and the connectivity they offer to the suburbs.

South Western Railway officials are now in talks with the infrastructure development department to chalk out more such circuits for the trains based on passenger utility surveys.

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/bengaluru/commuter-trains-hit-city-get-more-soon-813

So, now IDD / State Govt with BMTC should provide good connectivity to BIAL, hope to see more trains to Devnahalli soon.

Sanjeev

Sanjeev's picture

Bengaluru airport to wait another decade for rail connectivity

up
97 users have liked.

In the next 10 years, when passenger traffic will almost double, expect congestion on roads to increase

Guess when will get rail connectivity to its airport? Not before 2025, the year passenger traffic is expected to touch 40 million and nearly two decades after the international airport opened for passengers.

This is an optimistic estimate. The Karnataka government is expecting metro connectivity in the third phase from the city to the Kempegowda International Airport, according to Chief Secretary Kaushik Mukherjee.

The first phase of 42.3 km, for which work began in 2007, is only partially operational. Work on the second phase, which costs Rs 26,000 crore, has barely begun with a timeline of another six years to complete.

After this, work on the third phase is expected to begin, provided Bangalore Metro Corporation Ltd, the agency that is building the metro, finalises a plan, gets it approved and ties up the finances.

The Bengaluru airport, the third busiest in the country, handled 18 million passengers till March this year. So in the next 10 years, when passenger traffic will almost double, expect congestion on roads to increase. It is now a two-hour drive from the city centre to the airport. From Electronics City, where offices of Infosys and Wipro are located, it takes even longer.

“Poor connectivity will lead to exasperation of passengers coming from or going to the airport. If the city is an economic hub for a state or the country, this could have an adverse impact on the business community,” said Deepak Baindur, an expert in urban transport, planning and management at the Indian Institute for Human Settlements.

Most Indian cities have seen delays in metro construction. In July, the Maharashtra government sought help from Delhi Metro Rail Corporation to expedite the construction of the Mumbai metro to 120 km from 11.4 km before 2019.

In Delhi, the has completed around 200 km. Hyderabad hopes to complete the first stretch of 17 km by 2016. Chennai opened its first stretch of 11 km in July.

Bengaluru, to make matters worse, is adding more vehicles on its roads. The city has more traffic violations booked than vehicles – 7.43 million violations booked in 2014 for 5.56 million vehicles. The city can also claim to have more vehicles per person than any other in the country. For every two Bengaluru residents, there are one-and-a-half vehicles – 5.56 million vehicles in March 2015 for a population of 9.5 million, according to the 2011 census.

Since then, migration to Bengaluru has grown thanks to the high-paying jobs the city generates and its cosmopolitan culture.

It is not that the government did not plan rail connectivity to the airport. A high-speed rail network to the city was discussed long before work on building the airport began. It was shelved.

Early this week, former DMRC Chairman E called for a high-speed rail network that will cover the 35 km distance from the city to the airport in around 20 minutes.

A six-lane highway that could dump passengers right into a traffic mess at Nagawara was also shelved. A half-built four-lane tollway is now operational on an existing national highway that connects the airport to Hebbal, an intersection that separates the highway to the city.

It takes 30 minutes to drive 25 km to this point and another hour to drive 10 km to MG Road, the central business district.

A railway station in Devanahalli connects the city and the track passes outside the airport. A 2005 plan to operate suburban trains to Devanahalli is still in the works.

“The railways certainly could address this. A line at Hebbal is underutilised. Instead of going for a metro, if we speed up a commuter rail network, it will be far cheaper than the metro,” said Baindur.

"We know the solution and if it is not addressed, the consequences for the city would be dire. If we are not able to provide public transit services, in effect, we will see more cars and services such as Ola car service."

http://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/bengaluru-airport-to-wait-another-decade-for-rail-connectivity-115082000826_1.html

Well written article and its fact.  With further delay in METRO,  full fledge connectivity to Airport will be reality by 2030 only and that too depends on funds allocation by GOK  abd GOI has washed its hands for Bangalore.

srinidhi's picture

run metro to KIA at grade?

up
97 users have liked.

Yes, Bangalore is adding close to 2000 vehicles onto its roads every day..at this rate we will not have enough roads to handle the vehicles!

A very prudent thought is to dedicate one lane of road space (15 ft) at grade for the metro. Yes, this will give rise to some challenges for road users and for that we can have underpasses(magic) and bridges as needed..

All this will do is make the trip to the airport faster and make a statement to the public that they do not need personal vehicles all the time!

Vasanth's picture

BRTS more viable

up
99 users have liked.

Hi Srinidhi,

To get metro itself till Nagawara would take another decade atleast looking at complete underground Nagawara - IIM line. Easiest solution would be to have dedicated bus lanes.  Most sustainable option. Elsewhere there is road width limitation, whereas here we have double decker road.

Sanjeev's picture

when their is no will from GOK or GOI, next 15 years we wil not

up
74 users have liked.

Next 15 years Devanhallai Airport will not see any mass public transport expcet these high cost BMTC buses (  equvialent to travelling by taxi  if   2 /3 people go to airport )

METRO PH-1 itself becoming very hot for GOK to  keep floating the white elephant,  then already PH-2 is  draging its weight  so that GOK will sink and intern city sinks on debt burden.

Bangalore need a bailout package from PM   for all these white elephents to surrive or citizens  not to have much tax burden.

So in effect,  BIAL Aiport can look forward for mass Public Transport only after 2025

Looking at the BIAL , which itself is not intrested to get the halt railway station below Trumphet Flyover, which may cost just 50 Lakhs to One Crore.  That means BIAL does not want mass Public Transport so that more cars pass thru toll highway and more cars pay the parking fees at BIAL Airport.

Sanjeev's picture

This subject going since 2007, so some one can do the PHD

up
109 users have liked.

I feel from academic point of view also,  some can take up PHD how BIAL airport still works hard to miss the Public Transport with help of GOK, BMRCL, SWR, BMTC and BBMP.

Discussion were their for HSRL, Mono Rail, METRO, Commuter Rail, BRTS,  shuttel helicpoters,   FLY BY Bus service, Taxi.

With just two lane road inside BIAL,  how long wil it take to get jammed during peak hrs like in the morning and evening ???

 

Praja.in comment guidelines

Posting Guidelines apply for comments as well. No foul language, hate mongering or personal attacks. If criticizing third person or an authority, you must be fact based, as constructive as possible, and use gentle words. Avoid going off-topic no matter how nice your comment is. Moderators reserve the right to either edit or simply delete comments that don't meet these guidelines. If you are nice enough to realize you violated the guidelines, please save Moderators some time by editing and fixing yourself. Thanks!



about seo | blog