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'Safe Passage' - for pedestrians at K R Puram, Benniganahalli

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Pedestrian Infrastructure

bus stand"Safe Passage" is about collecting 2.00 lacs signatures representing to emphasize need for safe pedestrian crossing at K.R.Puram Railway, Benniganahalli and ITI Colony gate. Why Signature Campaign?

As we know the gatherings once dispersed the existence of such emphasis also disappears in thin air. Signature Campaign will be in existence all the time for ever. The leaders representation will make the things happen. I am inviting leaders to take this on along with me and be a cause for this Safe Passage of innumerable lives who will reach home safely thanking every good soul who have stood for the cause.

The focus will be children reaching schools, Senior citizens move independently to cross the road and People reaching the work place with ease and peace.

I will work out more plan for action and in the process invite more from the community for us to take this forward.

CKannan

[PS: promoted comment to a post, some formatting to add an image, but content all intact {blr_editor}]

Comments

kbsyed61's picture

Details Needed !

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CKannan, Is it possible to get some detailed information on this campaign? Information on proposed solution along with drawings/pictures would help understand the campaign better. Also info on how do you plan to obtain the signatures would be highly appreciated.
silkboard's picture

Get started, support should come

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First step is the hardest. We can get started with a meeting to plan this campaign.

I was thinking of suggesting to go meet BBMP to have this location included in the skywalk list. I only see one skywalk in this area ("K.R. Pura Bus Stand in front of BBMP Office"), where exactly is this?

BBMP has to provide land for skywalks, not sure if they own land on both sides of ORR near the foot of the cable bridge near the station.

CKannan's picture

Collecting of Signatures

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The detail plan of execution is in the final drafting stages. To briefly explain it works as follows. Along with me about a group of 20 individual called the community leaders will be formed and a meeting for the same will be held before 7th Oct 2008. These 20 or more community leaders will cause to create leaders in their community. Target Community who are benefited, Students going to schools and colleges, Office goers, Senior citizens and general public can have safe passage. I invite many community leaders to take on to this be posted and I will call for a meeting along with completed draft CKannan
CKannan
CKannan's picture

Rgd plan and drawing

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This is just the begining, the community leaders like you are extraordinary, can come up with various ideas implementation method. We can take to bigger game like giving design for the skywalk and so on. The exact locations of proposal are 1.K.R.Puram Railway station, 2. Tin factory at the foot of cable bridge 3.ITI colony gate at the foot of cable bridge. The cause is big, we can include the K.R.Puram in front of the traffic police station on the Old madras road. The draft will be ready and I will personaly address the participants. CKannan
CKannan
asj's picture

Go for a staggered crossing

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Keep it simple, here is a schema representation of  a staggered crossing - ASJ

kbsyed61's picture

Nice suggestion Doc !

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Dr. Asj, It's a nice suggestion and also had all the safety apsects taken into consideration. Is there any such Ped Xings anywhere? Syed
idontspam's picture

Seen it in UK a lot

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These staggred crossings also has space to allow people to gather in the median before the next signal.
shas3n's picture

Staggered crossings

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Staggered crossings are indeed very useful especially in areas with high vehicle traffic. As you rightly point out, they are very widely used in UK.

Here is a representation of them from UK's DVLA website.

For other types of crossings refer to rules 18 onwards on the ' Offical Highwaycode' here.

-Shastri

-Shastri

asj's picture

These are a common place in UK

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Pedestrian refuges, simple rectangular ones or the staggered ones above as well as triangular ones on T junctions are common in UK. Subways (call them magic boxes or anything else) or skywalks - rarely seen in UK. In UK, the basic rule is to use the most cost-effective solution. They will use the above option costing handful of lacs rather than the magic boxes costing 40lacs to over a crore. Imagine how much can be done with 100 crores if they are saved rather than spent on 56 such misadventures. Its tragic we have neglected something so simple for decades. ASJ
asj's picture

Wheel chair friendly too

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And every pedestrian refuge including the staggered crossing is disabled friendly. In fact in Pune we are trying to convince authorities to get one on JM Road. We are suggesting that the width is so adjusted that a wheel chair will pass but not a two wheeler (to stop abuse). Also on not so busy roads, pedestrians have a push button facility, thus traffic keeps moving until a pedestrian arrives to cross. Win-Win solutions, plus like I have discussed elsewhere, it creates even gaps in traffic and stops too many cars piling up at the next junction (refer to discussions on Cariappa flyover and cash pharmacy junction). ASJ
psaram42's picture

We would like to meet

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admin's picture

Ckannan, ssheragu, psaram42 - meeting date?

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We assume that you would be meeting to plan more on 'Safe pedestrian' project with sharp focus on Benniganahalli area.

Ckannan, Anantharam, Srinath, you should now be able to post the "event" yourself. This is how:

  • Login to Praja (at www.praja.in)
  • Then, go to bangalore page. (bangalore.praja.in).
  • On left side column, scroll down a bit to find a link (below Bangalore) that says "create event"
  • Click on this link, and fill the details to post an event.

Let us know in case you face any difficulty, can post the vent on your behalf.

s_yajaman's picture

Dr ASJ - more on pedestrian refuges

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In Bangalore, we have the ultimate road widening project a.k.a one-ways.  Many roads in the CBD are one-way and have 4 lanes.  As there is no concept of lane discipline one might have to navigate 8 lanes of traffic.  Do you have any ideas on how a good pedestrian refuge system can be built so that people don't have to navigate 4 lanes at one shot?  My own thinking was to have pedestrian refuge cum lane markers every 250 m or so on these one ways.  Traffic also gets streamlined in the process.

On pedestrian operated signals - I don't think you quite know what you are up against in our cities.  We used to have one on Residency Road in Bangalore.  My wife pressed it and the light turned green for her.  But... not one vehicle stopped.  This in Bangalore.  We probably need railway crossing type things.  

So while I generally agree that we should not have to spend money on such things, we have reached the "last resort" situation.

Srivathsa

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

idontspam's picture

Crossing residency road

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ROTFL on railway crossing type thing... I took an elderly person to cross residency road last weekend on the skywalk near Bangalore club. He found it difficult climbing so many stairs what with arthritis. On the way back we scampered across the road. He was afraid of traffic hurtling down the flyover, but was definitely less painful than climbing stairs. So much for putting up skywalks. My mom cant climb stairs anymore. So she cant cross residency road for the rest of her life :) So... we either have a crossing at grade with a railway gate or use magic boxes with slopes or have escalators/graded slopes for skywalks. My preference for magic boxes over skywalks is they dont need to go too far below the ground and hence less deeper than a skywalk which needs atleast 14 feet clearance. Of course at grade is the best option but nobody stops for pedestrians.
s_yajaman's picture

Raised pedestrian crossings

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These have cropped up all over.  Residency Road, K.H. (Double) Road, etc etc.  I don't see them working.

a. In Bangalore the general behaviour is - if the car in front slows down, he is probably an idiot with no ambition in life.  I need to overtake him by swinging left or right. 

b. Vehicles don't slow down enough in any case. They are still doing 15-20 kmph.  No 60 or 70 year-old is going to take a chance

c. Nothing to forewarn drivers that one is approaching.  In Singapore all non-signal pedestrian crossings have blinking lamps that are visible from a fair distance and you know you need to slow down.

What we need to do is to put refuges on these raised crossings so that (a) is eliminated.  Put some signage so that I know one is approaching. 

Somewhere in our psyche is the thought that pedestrians are losers and need to be treated with utter contempt.

Srivathsa

 

 

 

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

asj's picture

Paradigm shift - need of the hour

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I think we have a challenge which is a mixed bag. While driver training is an issue, so is law enforcement and significantly the way our roads are planned with regards layouts etc.

I don't think we have consumed all options to consider last resort methods. The police have not been firm enough, breach a red light - lose your license - it should be as simple as that (its mother of all offences).

Coming to refuges - We need them all over, different types for different layouts.

On narrow residential roads something as simple as - No zebra's needed, typically a residential setting hence flow of vehicles is intermittent.

Busier but narrow roads - two options here:

1) Zebra crossing without signals - This one has a refuge as well for added safety (but can be without as well)

2) But because generally most drivers in India are unaware that the Indian roules stipulate pedestrians have ROW at the zebra, they will not follow above, hence we need traffic lights - The image below has no refuge, but roads as narrow as the below can also have refuges (this splits the stoppage time and reduces the time the vehicles are left standing).

But the above can be with a refuge if the road is 2 + 2 lane as shown below: 

 

A Staggered refuge has to be considered for roads 15 meters or more wide (most certainly on a roads with grade separators/dividers (aka dual carriage way) - we have discussed this with images above already.

Coming to oneways with 8 lanes - please refer to Cariappa discussion, I am copy & pasting my thoughts here -

Now here are some steps I am likely to take -

  1. I will start with the basic premise of making the roads safe for all, pedestrians included. I note the problem is that a huge effort has been made by building this flyover to satisfy vehicle drivers alone. The goal seems to have been to try and get the traffic to move non-stop. This is a myth of a kind amongst our planners, because they only contribute to chaos further down at junctions such as cash pharmacy and beyond by sending a relentless stream of vehicles towards it.
  2. To correct the above, I will first remove the railings (red circle) and restore the exit point of the flyover to its original state.
  3. Next I will convert the flyover in to a single file of traffic (needs some thinking - but something similar to a hard shoulder is an option).
  4. Then I will re-do the line markings on the road beyond the flyover and the underpasses - 2.5 to 2.7 meter width of each lane.
  5. I will insert traffic lights at the 3 orange circles to control flow of traffic from each of the streams. This is vital because, in a cycle two streams will stop while other proceeds allowing drivers from each stream to move to desired lane more safely. This makes it damn easy for buses too. Signals can be vehicle actuated rather than timer actuated to give priority to the stream with most inflow.
  6. Traffic lights above automatically renders to pedestrian safety. As each stream in cycles is blocked, two CREAM coloured pedestrian refuges will suffice to let pedestrian cross in 3 stages.  
  7. By optimising lane width, we create options to use the road width optimally. The brownish triangular area to the left bottom of the picture can become a parking space (paid parking, allowed for 20 minutes at a time or perhaps only a drop-off/pick up point or a rickshaw stand - anything that is felt useful can go here).
  8. I will remove the extra width of the badly done footpath on the right (red triangualr area). This then can make way for a bus bay.

The above applies to any wide one way, where the traffic on right want to move left and vice versa, to do this across two lanes is tough enough, our planners expect drivers to do it across 6 lanes!! Once you strategically insert traffic lights and pedestrian refuges as means of managinf flow and direction, the problems will be solved.

ASJ

PS, I have not gone in to triangular refuges above to avoid confusion, the basic premise is same.

kbsyed61's picture

My Best Wishes !

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Ckannan, Anantharam, Srinath, My best wishes to all of you for your initiatives and upcoming meeting. Your efforts are highly commendable and deserves all the support and appreciation. This step of yours is also demonstrating that, now onwards, we the ordinary residents of Bangalore will not sit back and watch the hotch-potch work from civic agencies. Rather we will stand against such shoddy work and will not settle anything less than the best. Pls keep praja posted and do not hesitate to ask for any help. I am sure many Praja members would come forward for the good cause. Since I am not based locally, pls let us know if you need any offsite help. Once again, all the best.
kbsyed61's picture

Dr. ASJ, I beg to differ !

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Dr. Asj, I agree with you on the suggestion for staggered PedXings on a one-way with multi-lanes. This is certainly a good and doable option.

But I beg to differ you on your suggestion for the Residency Road flyover (Gen Carriappa) flyer. From the photo, and the adjacent neighborhood I knew off, it looks to me that the ramp from fly over is feeding into the road that leads to Double Road Junction. This particular stretch is not very long and not more than 1/2 KM. Prajagale, pls correct me if I am wrong on this.

Your suggestion to put the Ped Xing right at the ramp exit, seems not right. Instead I would suggest that, you provide 2 PedXings with synchronized traffic lights.

One below the flyover, just at the entrance of this road/Residency Junction. This will also give you the space for the refuge for Staggered pedxings. This would leave the flyover traffic to join the road without any traffic light. Pls see the Pink Marking for this suggestion.

www.flickr.com/photos/22896183@N05/2901520611/ 

2nd one at the entrance of the Double Road. That way people have ample PedXings on this road.

I agree withh you on all other suggestions, specially removing the Iron-Railings.

Syed

 

asj's picture

I beg to concur with you 100%.

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Syed 

My suggestions can't be accurate, they are more a way of pointing out that TDM is a science and there are principles which need looking at. I probably have the least first hand knowledge of the road.

But what you suggest is very much what I suggest, except you are a step ahead in the game.

I beg to concur with you 100%.

Ultimately these things need site visits and some on paper or on PC modelling to ensure that the signals and pedestrian refuges are placed at the right spot.

Cheers

ASJ

CKannan's picture

Meeting on 2nd Oct

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CKannan
CKannan's picture

Pedestrian refuge

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AT K.R.Puram Railway station this is possible there is a island already in existence and all it needs is the pedestrian controlled signals. And as suggessted there can be raised pedestrian crossing and indication for the same. Praja is such an active circle, this increases our enthusiam in the process. CKannan
CKannan
CKannan's picture

Safe passage Meeting

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Meeting with Anantharam and Srinath was of immense value for the stand they have taken towards providing Safe passage for pedestrians. 3hours and 30 minutes of meeting caused the following a) Photo of these proposed area are to be taken (Site visited by Anatharam and Srinath) and a presentation to be ready in 3 days. Responsibility - CKannan b) Meeting of the community leaders will happen on finalising the place of meeting - 2 days - CKannan c) Presentation of the campaign and the delegation of work on the day of meeting - CKannan, Anatharam and Srinath. d) Approaching Federation of Chamber of Commerece for support - Anantharam e) Media support to be handled by Mr. Srinath f) Sponsor for the campaign support - CKannan g) Details of design and need praja will contribute. h) Emphasise BBMP to take the approval of Praja for the design of subway or skywalk. CKannan
CKannan
CKannan's picture

Drivers training

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As rightly pointed out by ASJ Drivers training and then the enforcement is the need of the hour. In today’s meeting we had discussed about this issue along with the possibility of Staggered crossing as suggested. Drivers training. More than the training they have obtained in driving training school, we may not be able to train them better. But what is absent is the responsibility and respect of others on the road. The enforcement penalizes the offenders monetarily, but then these penalties are paltry considering today’s life style. My Suggestion: The offender should be charge sheet to regulate traffic at some place. Since this will affect his working day and most people are afraid of social work, the impact will be high. This project is called Service by Mistake and this service will also induce responsibility into the drivers. What if they don’t turn up, the price for this should be high to an extent of his driving license getting cancled. Staggered crossing: This is a very good suggestion and I had also pointed out that the same can be implemented at K.R.Puram railway station junction. But then during the meeting we got present to the following. a. The density of the pedestrian crossing at any given time. b. The density of the traffic c. The momentum of the vehicle moving at this place. In considering these aspect we had realized that the density of the people crossing at these location are high and amounts to few thousand during peak hours. Since this location is on the NH4 and the Outer ring road the density of the vehicle is also high. Thirdly at Tin factory and ITI colony junction since the crossing is at the foot of the cable stayed bridge the velocity of the traffic coming down the bridge is high. Considering all these aspect and the site visit it is necessary to have Subway constructed at these locations. Praja can comment on these suggestion, in order to get the best to the community. CKannan
CKannan
Naveen's picture

Safe Passage - Any Progress

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CKannan,

Is there any further progress with this ?

I agree with your last post - the standard road crossings will work well where the nos. are controlled. This particular spot has too many pedestrians & also a continuous, non-stop stream of vehicles - drove past here a few days ago & observed the same.

A wide subway across for pedestrians, using precast elements (magic box) would be needed.

I feel that pedestrian conveniences are far more important than vehicle movements. Efforts so far have only been to build flyovers & magic boxes to offer conveninces for vehicle movements. How about the thought of keeping all facilities closer to ground level for pedestrians so as not to inconvenience them too much & get the vehicles to move up or down more ? This will obviously incur more expenses, but such expenses are atleast, being spent on more worthwhile causes.

What can be done here is to elevate the road slightly - say, abt 6 feet, with a subway positioned only a few steps down from ground level. This way, the length of the ramps on each side of the underpass will be short & expenses could be minimized. This may be worth it as the no. of pedestrians crossing here is too high.

CKannan's picture

Meeting on the 14th Dec

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It has been a long time I could not concentrate on the safe passage, since impact of slow down on my industry was high and needed most of my attention. I declare a breakdown in our progress. I wish to reschedule the initiative and wish that more praja will extend support so that we can accomplish this goal. In this regard I spoke to PSA and Srinath and have agreed to meet at Mr.PSA's house. Date December 14, 2008 Time 15:00 Hrs (03.00pm) Place "Asha Kiran", 1669, 9th main, HAL III stage, Bangalore 560075. Contact No- 080-4126-9814; 98440-01591. Land mark-1 Indiranagar BSNL Telephone exchange on 80 ft road, Land Mark-2 Friends Bakery, on 80 ft road, 9th main Junction corner. Since more support structure needs to be discussed for accomplishing the goal, I request more praja to participate in this venture. CKannan
CKannan
SB_YPR's picture

Road level crossings not the solution

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Any road-level crossing, staggered or otherwise, is not the solution to the problem at Tin Factory. It will only result in a massive pile-up of vehicles on the already crowded ORR and OMR. Signals (pelican etc.) should be avoided like the plague as they end up either being showpieces or contributing to traffic jams.
The solution lies in constructing a skywalk or subway(with escalators) across the entire length of the road, which will provide a safe passage to pedestrians and at the same time ensure unhindered flow of vehicles. Simultaneously the median must be barricaded with barbed wire to discourage jaywalkers.
~~~~
Manish, Nagarbhavi.

~~~~

Manish.

Nitinjhanwar's picture

Here atleast one should stay on the ground.

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From the photo of Dr ASJ's comment in this blog (30,Sept 2008) there is no space for a skywalksubstructure.

Utilities and boundary walls have to be relocated. And still u may have the residents of first floor and the future pedestrians on a eyeball and nose distance to each other.

Why not have the pedestrians to cross under the flyover? U have a ready made pedestrian refuge, with safety come snow or rain. 

nJ

-nJ-

919462900144

www.nitinjhanwar.biz

CKannan's picture

Long time - I was out of action

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There is a raised pedestrian crossing at Tin Factory/Benniganahalli junction.  But then this is just a fixing methodlogy followed.  There is not transformation of vows in that locations.  We could see hoards of pedestrains still crossing the road adventurously.  The traffic movement is still the same.  On any working day from 8:00am to 11:00am average time to from Benniganahalli bridge to crosss K.R.Puram Railway station, it takes min 30 Min.  We should arrange a meeting with all praja members and brain strom the same and offer our suggestion to trafic police and BDA including the railways.

 

Ckannan

CKannan

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