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Learning from Road Layouts

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Traffic

Dear All,

I have for some time wanted to share how planning road layouts is vital for ensuring traffic flows smoothly.

Here is the first in what I hope to make a series (and hope other contribute too) of road layouts from UK. Aim is to share these observations with our planners to reduce entropy on our roads.

A Typical cross junction in UK

Layout example 2: A typical T' Junction

Example 3: Layout of pedestrian zebra (without traffic lights) at a T-junction. The layout automatically makes the zebra more than just a pedestrian crossing, it becomes a tool for regulating traffic, allowing vehicles either joining or leaving the main road safely when traffic waits to let pedestrians cross safely - want to see a video example? My video on Zebra belongs to pedestrians has an example, wait till you see the bus stopping for pedestrian at the zebra and see how it gives a chance for another vehicle to safely cross over to a side lane.

ASJ

Case example 4: A typical roundabout, again pedestrian zebra crossings without any traffic lights help regulate the traffic (along side the right of the way rules of a roundabout).

Comments

asj's picture

Road Layout Example 5: T Junction's and Right of the Ways

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Here is example 5 showcasing how clear road markings and signage removes conflict, establishes right of way and hence reduces entropy.

ASJ

asj's picture

More road layouts: Bus Bays, Major cross junction and U turns

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Ok, these are case examples 6 to 8.

First, example 6, looks at bus bays

Example 7 - is a major crossroads or intersection on a 6 lane dual carriageway - note the similarities with example one at the top.

Example 8 - same dual carriageway but a demonstration of how a conflict free U turn facility is provided

ASJ

asj's picture

Case example 9: Road typology

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UK has a clear road typology, this helps planning and implementing layouts and safety measures for the given function of the roads in keeping with vehicle and pedestrian density.

ASJ

asj's picture

Layouts: Footpaths, staggered pedestrian crossings & signals

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Case example 10:

A footpath never loses its identity - another compilation where I have demonstrated how the identity of a footpath is maintained throughout - this is needed on all our roads.

Part one gives several examples http://better.pune.googlepages.com/PreservingFootpathsIdentity.pdf, part II focuses on one new design spreading rapidly across London in recent times - I prefer this design on sections where small lanes meet major roads (not a major crossroad junction) http://better.pune.googlepages.com/Preserving_the_identity_of_a_footpat.pdf

Case example 11: Location of traffic lights

Correct positioning of signals / traffic lights to reduce vehicles standing beyond stop line - http://better.pune.googlepages.com/TrafficSignalsPics.pdf

Case example: A video showcasing a traffic lights sequence -

In India, often pedestrians are given less than 6 seconds to cross across 4-6 lanes. Even Usain Bolt may struggle to get across safely. This video shows the giid practice in place in UK in this regards. The video is aimed at traffic & civic planners in India to help improve pedestrian safety.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bD8yh6EJY4I

Case example: Why spend on subways and skywalks when staggered crossings could do the trick?

In India, pedestrian safety is not a priority. Often millions are spent in building flyovers or elevated roads but pedestrians are not provided safe crossways. Increasingly the planners want to spend millions more by building subways or skywalks (overhead foot-bridges) rather than integrating pedestrian crossing within traffic lights cycle by using pedestrian refuges. The refuge ensures pedestrians cross short segments of a road at a time and remain safe in between such periods. This video is an example of crossing facilities under Hammersmith flyover in London, UK and is compiled with the intent that planners in India use these simple cost-effective means to enhance pedestrian safety.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=u77oHBRWhZw

ASJ

[removed embeded videos and replaced them with links due to HTML problems - Blr_editor]

Naveen's picture

Principles for Street Planning

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ASJ, These are useful materials that describe street /walkway plans for multiple user types. You seem to have put in a lot of effort to clearly describe the many uses of the street & also make these videos. This is exactly what I would like to see, too, but our system & extremely poor on-street discipline by all, be it the limousine driver or the pedestrian or the bus driver, makes it so difficult to enforce an orderly multiple-user type street arrangements in our cities. The only way, to start with, is to go after reduction in the no. of road vehicles whilst simultaneously educating the masses - & this is never going to be enough, no matter how huge the efforts are as so many new & raw drivers keep pouring into our cities from rural areas, with little or no road manners or discipline. In the west, this is never the case as rural folks are also used to vehicle handling & road discipline from an early stage in their lives. The bureaucrats here, well aligned with ruling ministers, also conveniently "feel" the need for overhead pedestrian walkways as there are contracts that will be awarded & there is money to be made. Thus, the system generally tends to rely on big-ticket & expensive projects to solve transport problems rather than explore less expensive & more sensible solutions.
srkulhalli's picture

Planned streets first , then the discipline

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Naveen, While we all agree that things should improve, am not sure I agree with the approach. There is no point in educating drivers about lane discipline when lane markings dont exist. I drive on the left lane only to find a tree jetting into it. Though I have driven much in the US, over time in India I adjust to what works best here. People follow the easiest path and the point is that the design should be such that following it is least effort and at the same time ensures safety. Imaging having a cellphone in which you need to press 4 different buttons in a particular sequence to receive a call. There is much effort in cell phone ergonomics/GUI to ensure that what is intutitive and least effort is what gets in. Similary approach needs to be done for street design and planning. Once it is in place and standardised across, it makes sense to educate people and the education also becomes easy. In that context, what ASJ is doing is the right thing. We need to improve our designs in the first place

Suhas

Suhas

Naveen's picture

Street Discipline Difficult in the Choked Mess

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Mr.Suhas - thanks yr views. There are several roads such as Cubbon road, Raj bhavan rd, Airport Roads (old & new), Ring road, etc. that have lanes marked well. I do not find any difference between driving on these or on roads without any markings. People have a habit of moving from left to right & vice-versa with little or no lane discipline. This happens because road space is at a premium & traffic conditions are very bad, with the excessive no. of vehicles on most roads, & also because most drivers come from very poor backgrounds & have never seen a disciplined lane system in action. I think the solution is to find ways to discourage & reduce the no. of vehicles to manageable levels - disciplining & educating drivers, however new they may be, will certainly be easier than on the choked mess, that our roads are now. To do this, we need to move towards a system which makes using private vehicles much more expensive, inconvenient & time-consuming when compared to public transport - there may not be any other solution. Many cities, such as Singapore, Stockholm & London have been successful in enforcing congestion pricing & swaying private vehicle users to take up public modes for transport. Indian cities have so far, found it very hard to address this problem in a cost-efficient manner. Rapid bus is the easiest & cheapest solution, with many advantages, but the authorities have so far, not been receptive to this idea for bangalore due to the negatives published in the media in Delhi & Pune. Only Indore's BRT experiment has so far been successful, but it would require a larger metropolis to demonstrate the benefits of this system, & this may take some time, yet, after they realize that there really are no other better options on the table. Metro or Mono rail systems are hugely expensive & can at best, relieve pressure in some parts of the city's cores & along a few dense roads. An extensive system such as the NewYork subway or the London Underground may never be possible due to exorbitant costs, not to mention that it would take several decades to build such a system, even if we cud afford it. Pls also see the flwg link : http://praja.in/bangalore/blog/naveen/2008/05/16/dedicated-bus-lanes-a-presentation-bbmp
srkulhalli's picture

Street discpiline

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Naveen, Regarding your first para, people cannot switch on and off like robots. That is they cannot switch to good driving when suddenly we have good roads and switch off when we have chaotic roads. If you observe yourself when driving, you dont think every move while driving. You are pretty much on autopilot and drive subconciously. Thus you need to have good planned streets everywhere and only then would the driving patterns change. Getting people of the roads and into Public transport is 101, we have to do that. But that and improving our roads and streets are complimentary, one need not wait for the other. I agree METRO/MONO is very expensive and I have been stating that all the time. But rails are very efficient and the best option is to have rails on surface. We should do that in Tier 2 cities, and periphery of big cities NOW, because it does not cost much. And as you have somewhere else stated, we need a minimal METRO system in the city centres, as there is not much that can be done there. BRTS, I am not convinced that it would work. I have seen your proposals and I have seen comments of asj at different places and I have my own opinions listed as well. Somehow this should all come under one thread. Because otherwise we are just spending lot of time restating the same things in different threads. Admin - is there some way we could group all discussion threads on one topic under a new thread - BRTS for eg: so that the discussions would be more fruitfull ?

Suhas

Suhas

Vasanth's picture

Make important roads signal free and start BRT wherever possible

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One way is to make all the important and high density roads (such as ring roads) signal free and BRT service can be started on these roads provided sufficient space is available and the road is still chaotic. One more problem I found was that different BMTC buses travel at different speeds such as a normal bus struggles to climb uphill whereas a Volvo runs on the same. We need standardization on the buses running on the BRT track. We cannot have all type of buses running.
asj's picture

Signal Free Roads - Do you mean junction free roads?

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Signal Free Roads - Do you mean junction free roads? I have tried to imagine now for some hours how this will work. The only way it will work is if we had roads that did not meet each other and consequently there were no junctions. It seems impossible and unrealistic. Refer you to discussion on freeways are freeways and city roads are city roads (sorry can't find it quickly enough to insert the link here) ASJ
asj's picture

Road Layouts - using bus lanes to overcome bottle necks

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Here is the next example where the very clever use of bus lanes has made way for overcoming problems associated with bottle necks when two lanes merge in to one. This example http://better.pune.google... from hammersmith bridge is great, but I have seen this very principle in use in Hounslow as well as M4 (motorway which has a bus lane). http://better.pune.googlepages.com/hammersmithbridge.jpg Trivia - Hammersmith bridge above was closed for repairs in late 90s, consistently the data shows that traffic had reduced in Hammersmith (and after repairs were over many wanted to keep the bridge closed). ASJ
asj's picture

Road Layouts - Example of a yellow box junction

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We are well past a dozen odd examples. This image is great ariel snap showcasing the significance of road markings that ensure traffic flows smoothly (for those not part of long queues). http://better.pune.googlepages.com/layouts-box-junction.JPG Do watch the video on Gandhigiri (road courtesy) to see how the above works, also the video on tyre and tarmac rule looks at how these drivers manage to avoid staying bumber to bumper at all times when in queues at traffic lights or traffic jams, visit my blog on Praja or www.driving-india.blogspo... to view the videos. Not every junction is marked like this, but a few important ones, some public education and driver training about their meaning and drivers start behaving like this at every small junction (even when there are no road markings i.e. yellow box or the keep clear words) - a true example of cognitive mechanism called 'generalisation'. ASJ
idontspam's picture

Yellow boxes in bangalore

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We have yellow boxes at some jn's in Bangalore, but everybody thinks its rangoli to beautify the jn and was done so as not to waste the extra paint left over with the painters. Most of the yellow boxes not got asphalted over and dont exist anymore.
asj's picture

Yellow boxes: Its like giving a PSP to a octogenerian farmer

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idontspam - totally agree with you. Even where they are painted, many within the traffic police and civic authorities have no clue what they mean. The example I show above is a step further, its a yellow box within a junction not controlled by signals. What we need is planned implementation of the above examples along with education. Otherwise we will end up with yellow boxes and double yellow lines but most drivers will have no clue. That will be akin to giving an octogenerian farmer in remote India a PSP. ASJ
asj's picture

One road - many layouts as per purpose and need

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Imagine we had a road just 8 meters wide. How could we put it to maximum use depending on our need? This series looks at the above and showcases different options depending on need and purpose. This is possible only when road lane width is optimal i.e 2.5 to 2.7 meters - thus an 8-9 meter road can be used as 3 lane (2+1 leane road). Option 1: http://better.pune.googlepages.com/oneroadmanypurposestemplate.jpg Option 2: Here is a link http://better.pune.google... to an article where the Pune commissioner is talking about taking firm action against 'jaywalkers'. Sadly, this is yet another anti-pedestrian move in a city which has repeatedly fail to punish drivers driving past red lights. The image below shows how small inner residential routes may never need to have signal controlled crossings, just pedestrian refuges will do, that to at good intervals (300 meters as prescribed by IRC). Jaywalking thus is something that can only apply to dual carriageways or expressways where pedestrians ought to cross only at designated signal controlled points. I hope the commissioner is referring to such locations and not smaller roads. http://better.pune.googlepages.com/oneroadmanypurposestemplate3b.jpg Option 3: http://better.pune.googlepages.com/oneroadmanypurposestemplate1.jpg Option 4: http://better.pune.googlepages.com/oneroadmanypurposestemplate2.jpg Option 5: http://better.pune.googlepages.com/oneroadmanypurposestemplate3.jpg Option 6: http://better.pune.googlepages.com/oneroadmanypurposestemplate4.jpg Option 7: http://better.pune.googlepages.com/oneroadmanypurposestemplate5.jpg Option 8: http://better.pune.googlepages.com/oneroadmanypurposestemplate6.jpg Option 9: http://better.pune.googlepages.com/oneroadmanypurposestemplate7.jpg Option 10: http://better.pune.googlepages.com/oneroadmanypurposestemplate8ff.jpg Option 11: This is a very common layout in use in London where the layout is 2 + 1 lanes with one of the lanes dedicated as a non-segragated bus lane. Traffic typically moves at maximum speed of 30 mph (48 km per hour). http://better.pune.googlepages.com/oneroadmanypurposestemplate9f.jpg Finally, the entire collection above is incomplete without reference to Freeways/Highways and their distinction from city roads - this is detailed here http://bangalore.praja.in... ASJ
Vasanth's picture

Excellent information - Difficult to enforce in Bangalore

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Doctor, the information that you have provided is excellent and how wisely it is followed in UK and other western countries. Bangalore has fully become uncultured. People have become uncultured once everybody's earning capacity increased compared to what we were in the mid 80s and 90s when per capita income was less. Car buying capacity and the ego may be a problem. People do not have mutual respect, especially on the road. People stare at you if you come in their way. Before the signal becomes green, half of the vehicles would have moved half of the junction blocking the green signal holder traffic.Youth of Bangalore, especially the rural boys who have migrated ride their bikes as if they are demonstrating how snake moves!! No need to say about the mini trucks, goods auto, cab drivers and autorickshaws. People won't see what is coming in the intersection and simply go forward as if intersection itself is not there, same during merging as well. Zebra crossing,it is just a design to the road!! Pedestrains donot cross on the zebra crossing, drivers do not care for those who are crossing on the zebra crossing. I was crossing a road on the zebra crossing with my 10 month old baby in busy Gandhibazaar, I was made to run by a car driver with the baby. Driver was an elderly person of 50+. when I screamed at him he behaved as if I came in his way. Police standing in the intersection said 'Hogli Bidi Sir' ('let it go sir'). Having lived in US for a year (but didn't drive there), I myself was not knowing the yellow box and other concepts you mentioned. I felt that we are just driving blindly. As per India, learning to run a car in odd 10days itself is learning driving. Right now if people start respecting pedestrains and fellow drivers, see on the intersections either side, follow a little lane discipline, do not park hapazordly this itself is a major improvement. I think the discipline of the UK and US may not come here even during my great grandson days.
Naveen's picture

Road Layout Designs - I agree, Vasanth

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Vasanth, You are absolutely right. The features & possible planning options enumerated by ASJ are so nice - how I wish they could be useful to plan & implement them in Bangalore, but enforcement is quite impossible, & out of the question - no matter how many markings are made or initiatives taken, they all dont seem to work. Things only get worse. As per stats, Bangalore has the 2nd largest no. of motor vehicles on the roads in the country now (nearly 3.5 million), after New Delhi. Even Mumbai does not have as many road vehicles as does Bangalore, though our population is about half that of mumbai. With no efficient spinal transport systems, the excessive dependence on private transport is the cause for all this mayhem & indiscipline, as the no. of vehicles has grown completely out of hand. 2-wheelers going past red signals, people crossing roads anytime /anywhere, etc - the concern for fellow citizens has deteriorated to abysmal levels, as each one is battling for survival on the road. The saddest part is that there seems to be nothing anyone can do at this late stage - the govt is moving along like as if all this is part of the day-to-day routine. Tackling the nightmare of excessive traffic should top the agenda, with very urgent steps. With other cities forging ahead with their plans, we have been left far behind, left to only attend summits & talks & planning more & more of the flyovers that shift bottlenecks from place to place. One wonders if the Metro will change things, since by then, the roads wud have become a complete 'forest' of vehicles !
idontspam's picture

Solutions - Vasanth/Naveen

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Vasanth,Naveen - What we need to understand is that there are very few solutions that will fit around the current chaos and will still work. We dont have too many other options than to change a lot of what we do today on our roads. A foundation has been laid in the form of a metro. Can we use that as a lifeline and start configuring our pulic transport to leverage that? After we have a metro which connects indranagar to yeswantpur to jayanagar will we still see buses connecting these places point to point. Sadly we may and this is the way we plan. While we may complain what ASJ has put sounds futuristic, it is not. UK roads used to look like ours in the early 20th century. Even if you assume we started from scratch, we are 60 years old and we better be mature enough to fix our system now, else we will never grow up.
asj's picture

Solution focused rather than Problem focused

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IDS is spot on. May I refer others to http://praja.in/pune/disc... In the previous post I did refer to the history of road traffic and the chaos before introduction of highway code in UK (in 1930s). Rome was never built in a day, I am not expecting change overnight, but with the right approach we may see it in our life-time (and our grand kids will benefit for sure). Have we not left behind our bullock carts, have we not accepted the burger and coke, do people not abide by the McDonalds culture of putting their trays away and self-service, did our Nation not take to denim eventually...... In fact if we look at our roads, the chaos is because of hap-hazard and sub-optimal use of road space. The 8-9 meter wide road would be a common place in all our cities, but we use it poorly by letting people park anywhere and however they like. TS a good while ago had also pointed out the anomoly of having very wide lanes which allow a car and a rickshaw to sit beside each other at lights, is it any wonder then that we have entropy on our roads (refer everyone to the lovely post on Entropy by SB). We need a package. Licensing reforms, Municipal corporation taking on a scientific approach to road layouts and markings as well as TDM planning along with driver education campaign on scale of a pulse polio campaign (not some poxy road safety week celebration and cutting of ribbons at hands of celebs). All this has to be supported by law enforcement. Why is the latter not possible elesewhere when in South-Central Mumbai no one dares go past red lights (are Mumbai people any different?). Without the above any hope of a Metro and BRT or other measures will fail. The reason why people in Mumbai do not use cars is simple - all roads have (historically) had reasonable width on their footpaths (other than the suburbs) - effectively there is no FREE parking in the viscinity of work Just placing pedestrians first in terms of priority will make way for bug changes. Do note, that every layout above keeps pedestrians and their safety at the center of the change. Pune has a significantly stronger lobby demanding NMT (cycles) facilities. One of the layouts shows how this can be possible on most average sized of our roads. London has studied this and its now proven the fastest way around for journeys under 5km is the cycle. Most cities in India the commute average is 8km (so a significant number muust be doing 5km or thereabouts). We have had meetings with the different agencies, most focus on mega projects - ORR / Metro etc. I suggest, getting all the players in one room and asking them to look at bvasics first. Useless building a Metro if people can't walk or cycle to the stations. ASJ
Vasanth's picture

Buses still needed even in Metro routes

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Buses have been there for years now and many have accustomed to it. Metro will rather attract people who are not using any sort of public transport as of now, and few bus users. Many aged and ladies cannot change the mode of transport every now and then like the youngsters do. Also, the pricing may become expensive. Metro itself may become overcrowded if we stop buses in the routes where Metro is travelling to reduce the buses. PHPDT handling capacity will reduce by public transport in the route. Premium bus services like Volvos and Suvarna running in the Metro route may find a dip. People travelling in V333 may travel in Metro upto Byappanahalli and want to change to Volvo from there. But, say for example, a villager travelling from Vishweshwarayya layout on a normal parisara vahini bus towards Majestic via Mysore road will be reluctant to change to Metro near Nayandahalli because of the pricing as well as worry of understanding the automatic gates, the hassles of change of mode of transport. Doing so may disturb the whole setup. It will become more or less like Satellite bus stand, it may be convenient for a person nearby and incovenient for a distant locality person who has to change many buses to reach satellite bus stand and then take his destination city's bus rather than taking a bus from Majestic which is well connected to all localities. He would hesitate and may drive down to destination city. Doc ASJ can tell us more about this how this is done in London where Underground, Overground, Dockland Light Rail and Buses operate.
idontspam's picture

Feeder service

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One of the primary reasons to lay metro is to take traffic off the roads. It doesnt help to duplicate the efforts unless it is not able to carry the intended traffic. This will become like saying open HAL airport just because I want to have a choice even while an efficient way to handle traffic with BIA is possible. We can always choose chaos in the name of choice. Keep both airports open, move more people back and forth, put more traffic on the roads etc. It doesnt solve a purpose it only makes you feel warm in your pants. Anyway back to the point Bus should feed the metro or other lifelines and become feeder services. They will become last mile connectivity. I will give you the stockholm example. Where I live, the local bus stops every other block in the residential area and collects passengers takes them to the nearest tram stop and then connects to a few other places not on the metro/tram map and hence connecting them to the tram on the way back. This tram runs thru stations not covered by metro on the way picking up people dropped off by buses similarly from a few other residential areas. It runs into a metro station and stops like a train. People just change platforms and get on to the metro taking them to the city. The system and the effect is easy to understand. Everybody runs profitably because there is no duplicity of routes. Notice the connectivity SLA possible. Transport of passengers from every block in a remote residential area to the city without having to fret over overburdening the bus system. It like the capillary network in a leaf or the human body. Each residential block being the end point of delivery of the passenger. Its the most efective connectivity system known to mankind. Nature uses it. Regarding newbies... Have you seen the helpers in the mall who help with the automated parking ticket? Press the green button for you and explain what to do with the ticket if you ask? That I believe is a cheaper and more personal way to help people who dont know how to use an automated system, than to confuse him with multiplicity of options.
Naveen's picture

It's More Complicated

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ASJ /IDS, It was'nt just UK, even USA had it's nightmarish times when motorization began, as did many other europen countries, but that was almost a century ago. My point is that if we just assume that since there is'nt much else we can do at this stage & planning road layouts might do the trick with driver education & assume that this will bring about some semblance of an order, things will never improve since we are failing to recognize the basic flaws & are not properly addressing them with this school of thought. In fact, things will certainly get much worse. First of all, such road planning is impossible when motorization levels are increasing at an alarming rate - Bangalore had been adding about 900 vehicles each day till about two years ago. Now, this figure is 1400 vehicles, which is over 5 lakhs a year ! Each household is said to have over two vehicles on average, already. Second of all, we are moving extremely slow when very urgent interventions are necessary. One does not need to tax his brains to realize that the most pressing need now is a system that will result in a public transport that can compete effectively with private modes for mobility, & only then will private vehicles be dealt with permanently. For this, transport systems & traffic restraining measures are most urgent & very pressing needs. I dont think that there are very few solutions possible. The existent problems are well understood by those that are in charge. They are equally aware of the various possible solutions, but they do not wish to take initiatives or try to bring about the much needed changes in any hurry. Ordinary citizens & NGO groups are left to fight to get their attention, if they want faster action from them. How is it so different in East Asian countries & how is China moving along so well ? As IDS indicated, our planners are extremely poor - not because they are ignorant, but because the system permits them to lay back & they are never made answerable for any of this mayhem. I agree that we have been very poor & are still in an infant stage & need to mature fast & be able to fix our systems, but as mentioned, there are problems galore at each step, especially in bangalore ! We might soon see African countries overtake us in quality of life index !
idontspam's picture

Nothing is impossible

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Actually your second point is an answer to your first point. By first enabling an alternative you can crack down on private transport and make it prohibitively expensive to own one. Heck people will abandon private transport if there was an effective comfortable alternative. I used to have persistent lower back pain every day when I used my car in Bangalore. Since the time I have been walking up and down the public transport system in stockholm I havent had a hint of pain anywhere in my body. The first few days my feet hurt from all the walking... i have even lost a few pounds. People in Scandinavia walk thru dirty weather, snow, rain, biting cold etc. We are blessed with lovely weather in Bangalore all year round yet we make it more miserable by polluting the air and causing asthma. When congestion charging in Bangalore CBD was discussed it was put off temporarily because of the lack of alternate options. Once metro comes up I am sure it will be looked at again. The plan has to be there NOW, metro is getting done. How is the integration going to happen? were are the feeder services? where are the parking lots? where are the cycle pedestrian tracks? If everybody else is doing their own thing it is going to become a showpiece only. Hope BMLTA is listening. Hope BMRC can produce to the public these plans instead of showing us norman foster work of art which never get bult anyway.
asj's picture

Complicated: Hence the need for a package

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Navin, It is complicated. Hence I suggest the need for a whole systems approach and coming up with a package. Otherwise we are left with right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing. Though this thread looks at road layouts and optimal use of finite space, I have focused on PT elsewhere. In fact I will love it for the authorities to be ruthless - the layouts above (where I show how a bus lane in direction of CBD can be introduced on a narrow 8 meter road) and recent proposal for bus lane strategy on an 80 feet wide road in Pune all enhance PT to maximum. Our roads do not typically widen (or flay) at junctions, the layouts above allows us to still manage to have pedestrian refuges without needing extra space. I also mention TDM, very vital as whatever shape and form of PT - metro/BRT/TBS - if 30% shift from vehicles to PT, without demand management, the growing population will always find those who chose to fill the void immediately. Also there is over-estimation of how much the trains can do in contrast to buses. Vasanth is right, buses will still be needed. How many people are transported by the rather vast underground in London? How does it compare with London buses? The answer is that tubes carry 3 million on average while buses carry 6.5 million per day. I have been on days when London tubes are bursting at their seams - I have seen 3 trains go on CCTV at the gates overground before being allowed to make way downstairs to the platforms. Mumbai - buses carry 4.5 million and trains do 7 million, but the trains are packed with more than double the people the rakes are designed to carry, in effect, Mumbai trains of health and safety norms were followed would carry no more than 3 million comfortably. Now Pune is hoping to use standrad gauge, 4 coaches trains on its Metro - same as London - the capacity is no more than 150x4. Unlike buses, trains have no scope of detours to cover wider areas and distribute themselves - they have one track and as we know in Mumbai, the system does get saturated. Mumbai can't add any more trains as currently the headway is already just 3 minutes. Now, when I say package, I actually look at the Jigsaw called India and not Pune or Bangalore or Mumbai. Hence on separate threads I strive to emphasise need for good Development plans and development control regulations which cap city populations. Equally, to reduce and limit migration, I cry out on matters of rural V urban divide and lack of a social welfare state. In fact in my head, its many time more complicated given that the stage is the country and not just a city. ASJ
Vasanth's picture

Metro and BMTC should be competitor plus complementary

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We have debated that competition will improve the effectiveness plus throughput. BMTC or some x organization needs to provide feeder buses to the Metro station, at the same time offer competition. 45% of Current Bangalore population is carried by BMTC buses, only available mode of Public transport and rest by other modes. The public transport utilization should become atleast 60% initially by the starting of Metro/Mono services. If we stop the existing routes of Buses, which BMTC will not do, as I am sure, they didn't change routes much even after years, then a person especially aged and women will become reluctant to use the public transport since they have to change frequently. For example, many are reluctant to use the Bangalore-Mysore trains since they have to walk a lot between Station to Bus stand, as well as in the platform. On the other hand, it is easy to take a bus. Many travel towards Vidhana soudha using BMTC vidhana soudha services routed from their locality directly to Vidhanasoudha during peak hours which avoids bus changes and hence has became popular. Stopping of these services saying Metro goes to Vidhana Soudha, why have bus services there will affect the whole system. We have also discussed the TTMC concept and bus routing around TTMC. Narayan had made excellent slides to present the same. This will give lots of choice to the commuter thereby reducing the personal vehicle usage.
Vasanth's picture

Humps at Intersections

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108 users have liked.
Doctor, as I said earlier, our drivers do not check for other vehicles coming in intersection and do not respect zebra crossings. Also, there is a hate towards humps by the drivers. How about having humps in intersection to slow down vehicles. Is there any standard for putting an hump. What in Bangalore I have seen is humps built for buses (huge humps) are not effective for smaller vehicles and humps for smaller vehicles are not effective for buses.
srkulhalli's picture

Roads - how to find the way out of this mess

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101 users have liked.
I think most of you have sensed the urgency that we need to improve our roads. We have seen some good scientific approach propogated by ASJ. The problem looks overwhelming - where do we start ? Lets think for a moment from the perspective of a town planner or ward engineer. When he is asked to layout a road, he prepares a rough draft of specs and calls for a tender. Currently the specs will have only the most basic of stuff, and does not look incorporate the geometric design aspect (ie where and how to put bus stops, footpaths, pedestrian crossings etc etc) It is shabbily done without much thought. One way could be some kind of training programme and educate the 100's of civil engineers across the country. Very unlikely they will improve much and even if so, each would have his own approach, making it more complicated for drivers and pedestrians alike. The better option would be for a few englightened beings (like some of you here...:) to create standardised designs or templates for different classes of roads. Like a standardised design for residential roads, roads with shops, expressways etc. Maybe we would need 10, or maybe 20. These design standards should also include intersections of course. Now, when a ward level or city engineer is asked to tender out for a road, depending on usage, he just needs to specify which standard road design to be used, and that must be adhered too. (This is valid for new roads, retrospective improvement needs to build on top of that) There are multiple issues - which need to be tackled one at a time. I would start with good roads with well defined comprehensive standards, followed by driver education. We should get together and scratch our heads a little more to see how we could make a positive impact, one small step at a time. That is the idea behind kicking of a road working group and some of you guys surely should come in.

Suhas

Suhas

asj's picture

Open up WGs on all fronts

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113 users have liked.
We need to complement each focus area with each other. While we get our roads in order, there is no reason not to embark on driver education and better PT etc. We need WGs in for each area and all WGs should work towards an integrated plan. Top of my head I suggest WGs for following: 1) Footpaths, NMT & Roads: Suhas, Nitin (have shown interest) 2) Bus PT including bus priority and BRTS (including route rationalisation): Murali, Naveen, Narayan 3) Metro / Mono / LRT 4) Traffic Demand Management (can be combined effort from 2 and 3 above as this will look at congestion charging, paid parking, etc). 5) City Development Plan and Development Control Regulations (to ensure sustainable population growth / infrastructure in future - respecting the fact that neither can grow infinitely). ASJ
srkulhalli's picture

Road WG call on Sunday 12:00pm IST

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138 users have liked.
If any additional people want to participate, please send in your skype ID to me in private message.

Suhas

Suhas

asj's picture

Road Layouts - Updated

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99 users have liked.

An updated version of the layouts can be found here -

http://better.pune.googlepages.com/roadlayouts.html

ASJ

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