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Steel Flyover; what an idea?

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Infrastructure

A steel flyover from Minerva Circle upto Hudson has been planned by BBMP.

This will be a uni-directional ramp allowing movement from the South and descending somewhere near Hudson.  But then, this is only for LMVs and 2wheelers as the ‘committee’ has mentioned. When the whole world is looking at encouraging public transport in any form, this proposal to cater to privatized transport is ridiculous.This is yet another ill-conceived project from BBMP. In my opinion, given the multi-directional traffic flow no one should tinker with Hudson Circle without a comprehensive solution that involves KR Market, KG Road, Nrupathunga Road, Mission Road and Richmond Circle

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Naveen's picture

Steel Flyover

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Arun,
Could you let us know the source ? Has it been published yet ?
Thanks.
idontspam's picture

Read it on TOI

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Whats worse is this is on JC road which is already one way 4 lanes wide. What are we doing creating 8 lanes just on that strech while all roads before, after, and around, it is a bottle neck.

They are also planning a similar one in front of Lalbagh main gate? Why do we need a flyover in front of main gate? what is the problem there?

srinidhi's picture

again shortsighted ventures..

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when the mysore road flyover was being constructed L&T proposed to the govt that the start of the flyover needs to be near the corporation office..they had done this based on traffic study then..they had quoted additional 10 crores then..

however govt decided that they had paid enough and asked them to drop ramp on SJP road abruptly..and they did!

This is the reason why the exit ramp of the mysore road flyover on the town hall side looks so uselessly designed!

now..instead of understanding the traffic around hudson circle..they plan a bridge to flyover everything..STUPID!

Arun's picture

BBMP Budget

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Naveen,

This was published during mid-Jan this year, and also mentioned in the recent Budget.

Srivatsava's picture

A 'magic' flyover??

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   I am neither supporting nor opposing this flyover.


But, I was wondering if this will be the flyover version of the magic box. Just bring in the pre-fabricated parts and assemble them into a flyover!!


   If that can be done (civil engineers, please forgive me if this is non-sense!!), I guess it is worth trying the concept, even if it means that HTVs cannot use the flyover. Atleast, it may help separate the different modes of traffic and brings a little more order into our roads!!



-Srivatsava V


http://srivatsava-vajapeyam.blogspot.com/

-Srivatsava V

srinidhi's picture

not so magical..

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These bridges can be assembled fast but may not be that fast because of the sheer size..but they are way too ugly..

BDA had proposed such flyover on nrupathunga road..it didnt work!

We have metro coming up soon around that area and that should ease off the traffic to a certain extent..feel they wait and watch before they do a hotch potch job!

s_yajaman's picture

Used quite frequently in Germany

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This is not something new and has been used in Germany quite often.  My late father-in-law had given a report to BDA sometime in 2002 on this.  I think the cement lobby did not allow it to happen.  I think they are using this now.  Here is a picture from Bangkok

http://images.google.co.in/imgres?imgurl=http://www.gordonbelton.com/

More images

http://images.google.co.in/imgres?imgurl=http://www.mabey.co.uk/images/suppContent/flyover.jpg&imgrefurl=

Biggest advantages are speed of construction and if things don't work they can be dismantled. 

They can be made to look as good as any.  But BDA and BBMP can make anything look ugly.  That is hardly the fault of the flyover or the concept.

Srivathsa

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

Ravi_D's picture

Steel Overpasses

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These pictures show an interchange that I used to drive past almost daily. Picture #4 here shows a steel span (also notice the blackish structures below the road surface criss crossing 290 in Picture #2). Increased span and lower weight are apparently the main reasons. Steel is also environmental friendly. 

Here is a white paper that describes advantages of using steel.

But when proper design and maintenance regimes are not followed, fatigue failures have caused issues in steel structures. And we know very well our attitiude towards both, especially the latter.

Ravi

srikanthml's picture

why?

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I do not see any reason why we should have a flyover on JC road in the first place. Is there a way to oppose this project from being commissioned?
Arun's picture

Just to clarify

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Just to clarify -

 - steel flyover, as a concept may be better vis-a-vis the concrete ones

 - the opposition is to build a long flyover on JC Rd and the ramps descending near Hudson Crc as this will only create more problems rather than solving any


Rithesh's picture

Nothing new

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BDA was planing to build a steel flyover at the Shantala Silks junction near the Railway station. But the idea was dropped because of the extremely high steel prices back then (sometime around 2005).

But why dont these people realize that no amount of flyovers and underpasses inside the city will ever solve our problems.

I though people are rational and will always learn from past mistakes - but these people seam to defy logic and common sense.
plastorgas's picture

@ Ravi: Those texas

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@ Ravi:

Those texas highways are way too complicated!

If i had to drive there i'd go crazy!!

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Ravi_D's picture

You'll be surprised...

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...how easy it is to negotiate those complex looking intersections. Signs are the key, and you have to be real blind to miss your exit / turn.

On the other hand, I find it hard to negotiate the HAL Airport Road / Indiranagar Flyover. Once I was trying to go towards the city from Indiranagar 100' road, but ended up going towards the airport instead. Again, signs are the key!.

Ravi

blrsri's picture

steel bridges..here it comes..

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Steel bridge at Minerva circle is likely to begin in three months. The 2-km elevated stretch connecting the junction to Hudson circle will help avoid seven signals!

The proposed alignment will be around Town Hall, but there'll be no damage to the building. Nor will it be hidden from vuew, an engineer said. For this purpose, the corridor's elevation level will be above the building's roof.

 

 http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bangalore/Coming-up-the-high-road-to-South-Bangalore/articleshow/5137174.cms

Why bi-directional? if one way is done..the road below can accomodate the other way!

Any thoughts folks?

s_yajaman's picture

JC Road - interesting

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Pros of bidirectional

Cars and private tpt up on top.  BMTC buses get to bus lanes in both directions and a couple of bus stops too.  This will decongest Lalbagh Road too.

Cars and two-wheelers from Nrupathunga Road can climb this and this can decongest Hudson Circle as well.

Cons.

All this trafffic will then try and enter RV Road at Minerva Jn and will cause a massive jam there - imagine 4 lanes trying to merge into 2 there. 

They need to think hard.  They end up usually doing more damage with all their good intentions. 

Srivathsa

 

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

blrsri's picture

,,and why dismantling and shifting bridges?

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Arent the authorities sure of what they are doing? if they are not..then is it worth undertaking?

If seven signals are been avoided..we will end up piling up traffic at KG circle and Kasturba road signals!

Havent we had enough of 'magic' stuctures..now that the cauvery jn underpass is shrinking..are we planning to dismantle it?? and do what after dismantling?

 

n's picture

JC Road - no metro?

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How will the bridge work with metro (or mono)? Go over it? Going over Town Hall is bad (read expensive) enough.


srinidhi's picture

steel bridge news back..

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To be built at a cost of Rs. 134.89 crore, the flyover with 7.5 metre carriageways on either side, will link Minerva Circle to Kasturba road (2.25 km), Minerva Circle to Kempegowda road (2 km) and RV Road to Nrupatunga road, completely bypassing the busy Hudson Circle.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/366301/decongesting-hudson-circle.html

As we know bridges only shift congestion..so instead of stopping at Hudson circle, Kasturba road will get clogged and so will KG road..the govt still wants to promote personal vehicles (no PT/bus allowed on the steel bridge)

Wonder when they will learn..when they do, they will have a huge ugly structures which they cannot live with nor demolish it!

Metro is planned to be a game changes on this route..only if they could wait till it opened to re-asses the needs then!

murali772's picture

Bengaluru dumping its 'elevated' alter-ego?

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The opposition to the proposed steel flyover is likely to take a toll on another similar steel bridge that was proposed to come up on JC Road. Cost escalation by the bidder is also another reason.

- - - BBMP sources are now giving a different version. “Till recently, that was the plan. After approval from the state government, the work order would have been issued. But after seeing the massive protest against the proposed steel flyover on international airport road, we may now reconsider the plan,’’ said a senior official.


For the full text of the report (emphasis added by me) in the New Indian Express, click here.

Well, just as well.

With over 3,000 people coming onto the roads, and over 40,000 recording a loud "NO" in a poll, the government is obviously convinced of the sincerity of the genuineness of the protest (against the Chalukya circle to Hebbal steel flyover - check here), even though the chief protagonists would like to remain in denial.

We, in Praja, have been critical of both right from day one.

If not for the massive protests, the protagonists, led by the Bengaluru Development minister, would perhaps have liked to build an exclusive elevated steel city for the the "khaas aadmi", pushing the "earthlings" literally to the ground.

Thank God for the awakened city Civil Society. Perhaps, time to take charge now.

Muralidhar Rao
amithpallavoor's picture

Murali, I just think traffic

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Murali, I just think traffic density could come down on JC Road once the southern arm of Namma Metro opens.

This is just a guess. One would have do a lot of research on the ground to understand as how to Metro would impact the lives of South Bangaloreans.

Peenya, a major economic centre will become easily accessible to residents of Jayanagar, Banashankari, JP Nagar and Basavangudi. 

For starters, our Basavangudi MLA could park his car at home and travel to Vidhan Soudha by Metro and lead the way. 

murali772's picture

Bengaluru on a 'high'

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In my post of 28th Oct (scroll above to read), I had expressed a hope that the govt's steely resolve to 'elevate' us all may have slackened, at least a bit, going by the NIE report on the possibility of its having dumped the Minerva circle - Hudson circle fly-over. But, while that one's fate is unknown, there are plenty more "infra-structure projects" in the pipe-line, some already in progress, as may be seen here.  

All in all, the vision for Bengaluru, as perceived by the powers that be, appears to be based on the Houston model, the picture below (from Houston - check Ravi's post of 4th Mar, '09, scrolling above) giving a graphic indication of things to come.

Well, our Nayandahalli junction is already looking like this (much cruder, perhaps), right? But, now such sights are going to be the order of the day even in the very heart of the city.

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

not the right choice, ji

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What Bengaluru needs now is a plan that looks 50 years ahead, say Prakash Belawadi and Naresh Narasimhan, in their joint rejoinder to the interview of RK Misra published on Citizen Matters.

For the full text of the interview, click here.

The full text of Mr R K Misra's interview is accessible here. The most glaring part of Mr Misra's approach becomes obvious from the statement "In a city like Bengaluru, where people are able to afford travel by cars, they are even ready to pay toll if you provide them a good traffic-free road". Essentially, he wants to make room for the close to 60,000 vehicles onto our roads every month, even as it is already log-jammed by the existing 66 lakh odd vehicles, of which the proportion of cars is on a steady ascendency (check here).   

I had mentioned about the our pursuing the Houston model in my post of 8th Nov (scroll above, to read). Well, that indeed seems to be the vision that R K-ji seems to have sold George-ji. The talk about the "consortium led by US firm AECOM is now in the final stages of preparing the (Rs 11cr) DFR" fits in with that.

Well, the two ji's may be sold on their vision; but, as Naresh has pointed out, they contradict the The National Urban Transport Policy 2014 (NUTP 2014) that the country has chosen to abide by. George-ji better take note.

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

need a mobility vision for the city, and thereby UMTA

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Excerpts from an article by Balaji Chitra Ganesan in Citizen Matters, in support of the Steel Fly-over, in reponse to earlier one against it by Prakash Belawadi and Naresh Narasimhan - for the full text, click here.

The comparison with Mumbai on vehicle ownership is not very useful. Mumbai is a city of inequalities, with millions of people living in the squalor of slums while a minority lives in 27- storey houses. If the average Mumbaikar can afford, there will be a lot more vehicles in Mumbai. In contrast, Bengaluru is a transformational city where income is more reasonably distributed among people. Most cars in Bengaluru are owned by first generation car owners. Number of cars registered in the city is not necessarily the problem. The number of vehicles on the road for daily commute is the problem.

- - - I support public transport. I just don't support forcing it on people. The best mode of public transport are cabs, because they take from point to point (last mile connectivity) and are much faster than buses. Metro is a close second option, but is expensive to build. As I have pointed out in the article above, Bengaluru will need several decades to have a large metro network.


This is of a piece with

a) "car is the only means for comfortable door to door mobility in the city, and therefore deserving of primacy on the roads" - Kavitha Reddy

b) "In a city like Bengaluru, where people are able to afford travel by cars, they are even ready to pay toll if you provide them a good traffic-free road" - R K Misra.

Nobody can disagree with any of these statements. But, like I had said earlier too, all of the 10 million of the population of the city too would love to travel in air-conditioned comfort in their individual cars. But, it will essentially mean getting log-jammed just outside your gate, since we don't have the roads for that. And, if we attempt to build roads for that, which seems to be line of thinking of the "minister for the city" and his advisers (LA/ Houston model), we are plainly headed for doom, since even an LA is unable to cope up with the demand, as this recent incident highlights.

Mass public transport for regular commuting is the only way out. And, even as Metro is getting built, the bus can do the job, provided it's operated professionally. But, unfortunately, people have come to equate the bus with BMTC, and that's where the entire problem lies (check here), leading thereby to the even more unsustainable solutions like the flyovers, and elevated highways.

And, public consultation has to first happen on the mobility vision for the city, if we are to avoid such adhoc decisions as are happening now. And, that's where the UMTA comes in. Praja-RAAG has drawn up an outline for it (accessible here). May be the Civil Society now needs to push for it.

Muralidhar Rao
gbalaji's picture

Cabs are not just cars - Buses are the worst public transport

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Thanks Murali sir for taking the time to read my Citizen Matters article in support of Elevated Corridors.

I wish to add few more thoughts here. I hope points about optimization will be understood by this audience.

When I wrote "cabs", I did not just mean cars but also vans like Tempo (Force) traveller vehicles. As the popularity of Ola Shuttles show, people prefer point to point, shared rides. Such services maximize occupancy, but also ensure a seat for all passengers.

I believe the focus on buses as public transport is misplaced.

To begin with, considering BMTC is a govt monopoly, the only response from a group like Praja should be to encourage people to boycott BMTC buses.

But leaving that aside, fixed route buses are - by design - sub-optimal. Even in the best case scenario, where buses are private run and in large numbers, it'll be near impossible to do justice to all those who need to commute. The number of people who'll need to take a single bus for their commute, will be rather small. And such people will still likely spend far more time sitting in a bus than required. The majority of commutes will likely involve 2 or 3 bus rides, even more. 1 or two neighborhood feeder buses and then 1 or 2 route buses. In a perfect bus network, there'll be huge redundancies, where lots of (feeder) buses run empty. The cost to the public will be prohibitive. Private players will not enter this industry and the costs have to be borne by tax payers.

On the other hand, point to point services run by private operators are more optimal. This is not something Uber or Ola have discovered yesterday. (They are optimising on idle time). But the point to point idea has been popular for decades. When I grew up in a small town, I used to take bullock carts which carried all neighborhood children to school! Then we had motorized cycle rickshaws and then auto-rickshaws. Today, shared autos popular across India are the most obvious example of this optimization. And this is something which even the poor and the uneducated clearly understand.

***

Asking people to take a bus or a train, is like asking them to admit their school children in a government school. Sure, there must be few left wing people here, who believe in public school system. But for an average Indian parent, such a suggestion on schools will be absurd. Somehow, suggesting people to take the govt run bus or train, is considered alright. Why should the state subsidize the daily commute of the upper middle class and the rich, by spending on bus and train systems? Anyway, lets leave this also for individuals to think through.

***

We need to focus on point to point cab based public transport. This could be provided by the company we work for, or Uber/Ola/Zipgo et al. But this idea can be expanded much widely.

Why can't shared autos like in Chennai be introduced in Bengaluru? Ofcourse they need not be lawless and unorganized, but run by licensed companies with entry barriers. Isn't that what Zipgo tried? Hitching an 'illegal' cab ride is still popular in Bengaluru. Why?, because no one wants to take the slow bus service.

Why can't each RWA in apartments, work like the transportation department of a private company? Each apartment complex can have its own arrangement with van services, so that a group of people in the apartments, going in the same direction are dropped in office and picked up. Who wouldn't want to commute to office with a neighbor from their own aparment?

Our apartment (Brigade Gateway) has golf carts to drop residents at the entrance. Why not extend the idea to have common drop vehicles (paid by resident taking the ride ofcourse, but cheaper)?

Why can't commercial buildings or even a commercial street organise shared vans for all the employees on that street, even if the individual companies (say small startups) cannot afford?

***

Future is electic self driving cabs.

Some of the recent arguments like 'Demotorization' are so irrational, considering the world is moving towards electic self driving cars and cabs. They are already operational in Singapore and Pittsburgh. And in this very city, Lithium is running. Some of the US/European cities are already facing drops in Metro ridership, as people have better transport options like Uber/Lyft.

***

A section of the civil society can continue to obcess with idealogical and outdated ideas like buses and suburban trains, but the rational person on the road is thinking on her feet and avoiding such forms of sub-optimal transport.


amithpallavoor's picture

Bangalore has a large section

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Bangalore has a large section of population living in slums, which are sub saharan in nature.

The problem with Bangalore is the elite who live in their ivory towers and believe elevated roads are an answer to all the traffic woes.

Is traffic the only issue  bugging Bangalore?

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